Love the new liveries SteveB; great stuff coming out of your paint shop Sir 
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The Staff of SOH
Douglas A20 Havoc
- Thread starter Milton Shupe
- Start date
Thanks guys. I have been playing with this one a bit more the past couple of hours.
AE 457, ex Belgian contract aircraft. All initial deliveries had black undersides. As these aircraft where fitted with different bomb racks and sights so where used by the RAF as operational conversion trainers. They did this by shipping a couple of each of this batch amongst the operational Boston sqn's.
Steve
AE 457, ex Belgian contract aircraft. All initial deliveries had black undersides. As these aircraft where fitted with different bomb racks and sights so where used by the RAF as operational conversion trainers. They did this by shipping a couple of each of this batch amongst the operational Boston sqn's.
Steve
Attachments
Yep, something like that
I have moved the reg numbers on the fuselage down a little since that last picture but apart from that it is done for now.
Any chance you can have a look at the Dutch East Indies, Naval aviation pilots cap for me, as I already have a backlog building of pilots hats, Japanese naval aviation, RAF, Luftwaffe and Aeroflot.
Steve
Added later picture.
Attachments
michaelvader
Members +
Douglas A20 Havoc french defeat
bonsoir Gastonj,
I certainly would not rewrite history nore be right at any price!
but look at this french article here:
http://www.histoire-en-questions.fr/deuxieme guerre mondiale/France1940 armistice.html
at the last paragraphe it is clearly written: A 18h 50 le samedi 22 juin, le général Charles Huntziger signa le traité de capitulation de la France devant le Reich hitlérien.
This topic should only a paraphe here as I consider that the main aim of this site are the planes , the techniques and to honor all those who did fight for their country independed from which side they did stand.
Just to clear a bit more my situation to Gastonj so he would not have wrong thoughts about me:
I am german, born in Berlin what I would never denie
I love France, especially Brittany
My wife is a patriotic french women
My home is in Brittany, even if now for professional reasons I must live in Munich (vivement la retraite et que je puisse retourner a ma tribu en bretagne)
And I agree fully Bernard Chabert, a french aero jounalist who said: on a pas a reecrire l histoire, mais a en aprendre pour ne pas refaire les memes erreurs
I hope all is clear now
Yours
papi
bonsoir Gastonj,
I certainly would not rewrite history nore be right at any price!
but look at this french article here:
http://www.histoire-en-questions.fr/deuxieme guerre mondiale/France1940 armistice.html
at the last paragraphe it is clearly written: A 18h 50 le samedi 22 juin, le général Charles Huntziger signa le traité de capitulation de la France devant le Reich hitlérien.
This topic should only a paraphe here as I consider that the main aim of this site are the planes , the techniques and to honor all those who did fight for their country independed from which side they did stand.
Just to clear a bit more my situation to Gastonj so he would not have wrong thoughts about me:
I am german, born in Berlin what I would never denie
I love France, especially Brittany
My wife is a patriotic french women
My home is in Brittany, even if now for professional reasons I must live in Munich (vivement la retraite et que je puisse retourner a ma tribu en bretagne)
And I agree fully Bernard Chabert, a french aero jounalist who said: on a pas a reecrire l histoire, mais a en aprendre pour ne pas refaire les memes erreurs
I hope all is clear now
Yours
papi
michaelvader
Members +
Douglas A20 Havoc repaints
Good evening Huub, Steve
hey are you retired or do you have a job that lets you a lot of time?
I' m in admiration to your repaints . and as I see following the posts you not simply make repaints but also a lot of historic back ground research.
Fantastic that people as you and of course Milton and his team in their spare time give us users so fine birds.
And still for FS2004
A really fine way to keep those models still flying
Yours
Papi
Good evening Huub, Steve
hey are you retired or do you have a job that lets you a lot of time?
I' m in admiration to your repaints . and as I see following the posts you not simply make repaints but also a lot of historic back ground research.
Fantastic that people as you and of course Milton and his team in their spare time give us users so fine birds.
And still for FS2004
A really fine way to keep those models still flying
Yours
Papi
gastonj
Members +
Hi michaelvalder,
I am sorry, this article is clearly wrong, Huntziger, in Rethondes, did not sign capitulation but "date of cessation of hostilities an acceptance of armistice conditions". These are the rigth terms. It is clearly a language approximation, a very big mistake for the author of this article, an incompetant historian of course, and it is not the only one. You are German , you must know the difference between an armistice and a capitulation, think at the armistice of 1918 (Traité de Versailles) and the Capitulation of 1945 (without conditions). Generally, in an Armistice the troops stays on the position at the cessation of hostilities. This was the case in 1940, 2 zones in France, one occupied and a free one (mainly south of France). Althought it is a sim aviation site, i think it is important to be precise because the usual British French bashing ...The french people know very well his history and does not seek to rewrite it.
I say this without emotion, without being upset, just to be precise.
JMC
I am sorry, this article is clearly wrong, Huntziger, in Rethondes, did not sign capitulation but "date of cessation of hostilities an acceptance of armistice conditions". These are the rigth terms. It is clearly a language approximation, a very big mistake for the author of this article, an incompetant historian of course, and it is not the only one. You are German , you must know the difference between an armistice and a capitulation, think at the armistice of 1918 (Traité de Versailles) and the Capitulation of 1945 (without conditions). Generally, in an Armistice the troops stays on the position at the cessation of hostilities. This was the case in 1940, 2 zones in France, one occupied and a free one (mainly south of France). Althought it is a sim aviation site, i think it is important to be precise because the usual British French bashing ...The french people know very well his history and does not seek to rewrite it.
I say this without emotion, without being upset, just to be precise.
JMC
michaelvader
Members +
Douglas A20 Havoc french DB 7
Good evening Gastonj,
allright let us be the things as they are
Hmm I have the feeling you know a bit more about french history than I do,
so perhaps you can explain me the reasons of the beginning of this topic - the french DB 7's.
What did they become?
I presume that at the end of the battles in 1940 a lot did fly to north africa and so did not fall into german hands, but the others?
It seems that some did fly for the Vichy air force. When germany occupied the rest of france a lot of Vichy aircraft was taken over by the luftwaffe - but it apears no DB7 or A20.
Do you know why ?
Oh another completely different question, it is relative easy to find good photos about allied aircraft cockpits,
but for french ac it seems quiet difficult. Are they still tagged "secret defence"? j avoue la je ne suis pas serieux.
But there are a lot of interesting aircraft but to find good cockpit photos "je me casse les dents dessus"
Yours
Papi
Good evening Gastonj,
allright let us be the things as they are
Hmm I have the feeling you know a bit more about french history than I do,
so perhaps you can explain me the reasons of the beginning of this topic - the french DB 7's.
What did they become?
I presume that at the end of the battles in 1940 a lot did fly to north africa and so did not fall into german hands, but the others?
It seems that some did fly for the Vichy air force. When germany occupied the rest of france a lot of Vichy aircraft was taken over by the luftwaffe - but it apears no DB7 or A20.
Do you know why ?
Oh another completely different question, it is relative easy to find good photos about allied aircraft cockpits,
but for french ac it seems quiet difficult. Are they still tagged "secret defence"? j avoue la je ne suis pas serieux.
But there are a lot of interesting aircraft but to find good cockpit photos "je me casse les dents dessus"
Yours
Papi
Actually I have some time on my hands at the moment, and for the next couple of weeks then I'll be busy again and not around here as much.
gastonj
Members +
Hi Michaelvader,
Yes, it is a possibility that all DB7 were in North Africa after armistice, mainly in Marocco where they was assembled in 1939/1940. A few number fought in the battle of France. In the hand of Vichy Forces they fought against UK Army and US Army at the very beginning of Allied Operation Torch (GB II-32 with 13 units). Most of them were ground destroyed. After, out of date, they were unused in combat until liberation of France (August 1944). At this time they go back bombing (with ex German JU-88) what we call "Poches de l'Atlantique", La Rochelle, Royan, Lorient etc.. If documentation exist, maybe at the "Musée de l'Air et de l'Espace" in Bourget airport.
They disappear in the 1947 inventory of French Air Force.
JMC
Yes, it is a possibility that all DB7 were in North Africa after armistice, mainly in Marocco where they was assembled in 1939/1940. A few number fought in the battle of France. In the hand of Vichy Forces they fought against UK Army and US Army at the very beginning of Allied Operation Torch (GB II-32 with 13 units). Most of them were ground destroyed. After, out of date, they were unused in combat until liberation of France (August 1944). At this time they go back bombing (with ex German JU-88) what we call "Poches de l'Atlantique", La Rochelle, Royan, Lorient etc.. If documentation exist, maybe at the "Musée de l'Air et de l'Espace" in Bourget airport.
They disappear in the 1947 inventory of French Air Force.
JMC
Hi gastonj.
I am always happy to learn what happened too the large number of DB7's after flying to Morroco. I am guessing here that they would have been stored out in the open for a few months before being flown back too France to in August 1944. Therefore a slightly sand blasted and sun faded French European scheme. wearing French Airforce Roundels and full rudder flag and Dday stripes on the rear fuselage and under the wings ?
Steve
I am always happy to learn what happened too the large number of DB7's after flying to Morroco. I am guessing here that they would have been stored out in the open for a few months before being flown back too France to in August 1944. Therefore a slightly sand blasted and sun faded French European scheme. wearing French Airforce Roundels and full rudder flag and Dday stripes on the rear fuselage and under the wings ?
Steve
I have quite a bit of info on the DB-7 and French history of orders and eventual status of those aircraft ordered, received or diverted.
I will share once uploaded.
I will share once uploaded.
michaelvader
Members +
goood mooorning,
Steve, Gaston,
Gaston thank you for your answers,
Steve, will all your repaints come with the final release or in an extra bucket?
I loved that your repaints are not "factory fresh" but shows the planes living and so be used the painture not so fresh.
When I see as example the planes that win the grand champion title at oskosh - really a superb work done by those who restaured the planes! but really totally un real. Why not to restore a plane with the look the bird had near its end of career?
A bird who will be proud to have lived and to show that he has it's own history.
Ah tomorrow to days free not at work - I will have a bit time to put my nose on my pc and the A20!
Yours
Papi
Steve, Gaston,
Gaston thank you for your answers,
Steve, will all your repaints come with the final release or in an extra bucket?
I loved that your repaints are not "factory fresh" but shows the planes living and so be used the painture not so fresh.
When I see as example the planes that win the grand champion title at oskosh - really a superb work done by those who restaured the planes! but really totally un real. Why not to restore a plane with the look the bird had near its end of career?
A bird who will be proud to have lived and to show that he has it's own history.
Ah tomorrow to days free not at work - I will have a bit time to put my nose on my pc and the A20!
Yours
Papi
Papi, Steve, et al,
I have uploaded some things for your review with detailed info regarding French units.
I will PM you with links.
Papi, I am also uploading some Pilot / cockpit info on the Havoc II which may be helpful in your quest.
