• There seems to be an uptick in Political comments in recent months. Those of us who are long time members of the site know that Political and Religious content has been banned for years. Nothing has changed. Please leave all political and religious comments out of the forums.

    If you recently joined the forums you were not presented with this restriction in the terms of service. This was due to a conversion error when we went from vBulletin to Xenforo. We have updated our terms of service to reflect these corrections.

    Please note any post refering to a politician will be considered political even if it is intended to be humor. Our experience is these topics have a way of dividing the forums and causing deep resentment among members. It is a poison to the community. We appreciate compliance with the rules.

    The Staff of SOH

  • Server side Maintenance is done. We still have an update to the forum software to run but that one will have to wait for a better time.

Convair Delta Wing Test

Having read thru some of the Naval Test Plot School methods, this displacement and instrumentation of dampening seems to be a fairly standard test procedure. Makes me think a lot of FS planes are over dampened.

T
 
fliger747 said:
Having read thru some of the Naval Test Plot School methods, this displacement and instrumentation of dampening seems to be a fairly standard test procedure. Makes me think a lot of FS planes are over dampened.

T
Click to expand...

Undoubtedly. Many of them also have high inertia and a lack of a dutch roll response. I don't know how many "heavies" I've flown in FS where you kick the rudder at low speeds and the plane just keeps going straight with the original velocity vector and rotates in yaw without changing direction. Some people think heavy controls are synonymous with unresponsive controls.
 
I flew the 747 for about 17 years, every version from the 100 to the -8/Intercontinental and the Dream Lifter, but not the SP unfortunately. For a huge plane tremendous control response and maneuverability. This was very useful for crosswind landings and lots of other potentially exciting situations. For those reasons a steady hand was required, I would see new pilots get into self induced turbulence!

Some of the XF92 test pilots though it a beastly flier though Yeager apparently liked it a lot. Sensitive he said. There are some interesting pitch change effects at higher AOA values which I am investigating currently.

Cheers: Tom
 
Still tweaking away. Reducing the high mach elevon effectiveness some more. At M .88 or so 4.5 deg AOA will give you a 5-7 G loop! That's probably about right. Currently, aerodynamically with enough elevon effectiveness one can pull 25 G max pullup. Fun to do some amazing maneuvers in that mode, but not realistic. As is typical with transonic dynamics, there is a significant shift in the center of lift but complicated a lot by the vortex formation off the leading edge. The available reports are very interesting and great data, but of course they didn't fully understand what was going on quite yet. Then the elevons would develop their own shockwave and pressure distributions along the hinge line, making life even more interesting!

Cheers: Tom
 
Soooo.... What happened to this project?? :bump::bump:

It's been a couple weeks since the last post and it's still not available for downloading. Will someone please crack the whip and get this out. :a1089:

:adoration:
 
I literally just exchanged 2 emails with Milton this morning already. We ironed out an issues with a recent build that delays the onset of animated wing vapor. We were waiting on a pilot figure, but that may not now materialize. Tom is working the FDE. However with only those items open, we'll close the wing vapor issue, and release a public Beta in April. The pilot figure and fully complete FDE don't have to be complete for that. Please remember that from start if the project through April will have been 8 months. Since December is the textures have been basically complete. We've really needed an FDE guy which we only recently had Tom join the fun. And great strides have been made.
 
WarHorse47 said:
Soooo.... What happened to this project?? :bump::bump:

It's been a couple weeks since the last post and it's still not available for downloading. Will someone please crack the whip and get this out. :a1089:

:adoration:
Click to expand...

Tom "Fliger747" has made great progress on this very unique flight model characteristics. Love what he has done with the flight model.

Aside from that, the pilot figure has been the hold-up. May just put in a bobble head to satisfy your anxieties. :a1310:
 
Milton Shupe said:
Tom "Fliger747" has made great progress on this very unique flight model characteristics. Love what he has done with the flight model.

Aside from that, the pilot figure has been the hold-up. May just put in a bobble head to satisfy your anxieties. :a1310:
Click to expand...
Works for me. I fly from the inside anyways... :wink:
 
"Bobble-Head" sounds fine to me as well. Remember also that for many of us the FDE only represents an ability of the airplane to take off. . .climb to any altitude we select in the AP, fly a predetermined distance while inputting heading and altitude corrections and then land.

All the rest discussed here, I can honestly reply to by paraphrasing a gentleman on FSDevelopers who, after being given a lengthy description of various ways to correct a problem and ways to enhanced the finished project was heard to say. . ."I appreciate your support and efforts to assist with my problem, however after reading your explanation, it went completely over my head as I did not understand a word you said and so I will be unable to comment any further on the subject", lol

Thanks for everyone's efforts on this project it has at least been interesting to watch.
 
As far as the bobble head pilot figure, anyone who built the old Hawk/Testors XF-92 model kit as a kid should find that acceptable. After all, the interior cockpit for that thing was literally a pilot head mounted to a flat plate.

(Why do I remember this? : )
 
LOL Guys; would not do that even as a joke. :)

I have borrowed an era-correct pilot and will do some mods to make it generally acceptable.
An oxy mask is a requirement. :)
 

Attachments

  • ms-2018-apr-3-001.jpg
    ms-2018-apr-3-001.jpg
    99.1 KB · Views: 2
Javis said:
I'll pick him up where he has fallen, Milton. :teapot:

I'll send you something asap. Sorry for the delay.

Cheers,
jan
Click to expand...

Hi Jan :)

Now that was an interesting way to put that. :)

Thank you, and hope your progress has met your expectations.
 
Still putzing around with the flight dynamics so as to try to somewhat replicate the transonic "issues". As an early delta wing it was a great research project, but as with the X-3 suffered from being quite underpowered.

It's fairly easy to land with a few caveats; The Delta wing can be usefully taken to quite high AOA values, but with increasing induced drag. Landing approach is accomplished at about 10-11 deg AOA at about 145 knots, depending on weight. The min drag is at about 175-180 knots, so you are in the area of reverse command on approach, meaning increasing the AOA will soon result in greater drag and a steeper glide angle. The technique ids to stabilize the aircraft at the appropriate attitude/airspeed/AOA and keep it there, adjusting the glide path with thrust. Just realize that you will need to complete the roundabout/flare maneuver with enough energy to not make an airplane shaped hole in the runway.

T
 
fliger747 said:
Still putzing around with the flight dynamics so as to try to somewhat replicate the transonic "issues". As an early delta wing it was a great research project, but as with the X-3 suffered from being quite underpowered.

It's fairly easy to land with a few caveats; The Delta wing can be usefully taken to quite high AOA values, but with increasing induced drag. Landing approach is accomplished at about 10-11 deg AOA at about 145 knots, depending on weight. The min drag is at about 175-180 knots, so you are in the area of reverse command on approach, meaning increasing the AOA will soon result in greater drag and a steeper glide angle. The technique ids to stabilize the aircraft at the appropriate attitude/airspeed/AOA and keep it there, adjusting the glide path with thrust. Just realize that you will need to complete the roundabout/flare maneuver with enough energy to not make an airplane shaped hole in the runway.

T
Click to expand...

Sounds like a very fun ride too me :)
 
Milton and Tom have done a great job on this one! With the good news from Jan, and with Tom refining the FDE, this should be a very fun flyer!
 
Rick:

I'll try to shoot you and Milton a new set of files quite soon. The delta wing planform has quite complex transonic flow patterns. There is a lot of data on this particular aircraft, but as it was a new frontier at the time, not a lot of understanding.

T
 
Xf-92a update 04-10-2018

A little update on this project:

I received the new model with a standin pilot from Milton until we can get the period piece from Jan Visser. thanks to both of them! Now all we need is the latest FDE iteration from Tom, which should be soon-ish. We've decided to release a "Beta" at this point until Tom feels the FDE is where he is able to get it. that can take time. So rather than let you all wait, we will release the beta. I'm very confident on an April release for the beta. There's really nothing holding that back at this point.

40480531035_4f51a08c36_o.jpg


39566284410_1d3aaeba88_o.jpg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top