Hey Huub/Ferry!!

[Panther_99FS]

Take tomorrow off work and drink the night away!
It's been a crazy season but it's now the dawn of a new era/changing of the guard!

Bravo to you guys!!!

On a side note, how did the Alpha Tauri team do in the constructor's championship?

 

[huub vink]

Thanks Ed,

Like the whole season the FIA took a few controversial decisions today. I think today Red Bull were forced to use a more aggressive strategy against the too conservative approach from Mercedes. I feel sorry for Lewis as he clearly had the better pace today and became victim of Nicholas Latifi's error, the safety car and Red Bull's strategy. But I'm glad it ended this way, otherwise we would have a discussion about the incident in Copse Corner at least until the end of Max Verstappen's career.

Alpha Tauri ended the season in sixth place with 142.5 points. Mercedes (613.5), Red Bull (585.5), Ferrari (323.5), McLaren-Mercedes (275). Alpine-Renault (155) were ahead of them. Gasly ended as ninth in the driver's championship (above Fernando Alonso who was the best Alpine driver....).

Next year I hope Ferrari will have closed the gap with Mercedes and Red Bull.

Cheers,
Huub

 

[Panther_99FS]

Hey Huub....
Do you think Gasly would entertain an offer from Alpine-Renault?

 

[Priller]

Next year I hope Ferrari will have closed the gap with Mercedes and Red Bull.

Cheers,
Huub

We agree on that one!

Priller

 

[EasyEd]

Hey All,

I have actually followed the bulk of F1 races this year. For this race the following is from the site I follow F1 from...

start protest
The claims of Mercedes:

Mercedes claimed that there were two breaches of the Sporting Regulations (Article 48.12) namely that which states “..any cars that have been lapped by the leader will be required to pass
the cars on the lead lap and the safety car” and “…once the last lapped car has passed the leader
the safety car will return to the pits at the end of the following lap.”

Mercedes argued that had this been complied with, Car 44 would have won the race.

They therefore requested the Stewards to amend the Classification under Article 11.9.3.h of the FIA International Sporting Code.

Red Bull’s arguments in defence:

Red Bull argued that

1. “Any” does not mean “all”.
2. The article 48.13 of the Sporting Regulations states that the message “Safety Car in this lap” is the signal that it will enter the pit lane at the end of that lap.
3. That therefore Article 48.13 “overrides” article 48.12.
4. That article 15.3 gives the race director “overriding authority” over “the use of the safety car”.
5. That even if all cars that had been lapped (eight in total, of which five were allowed to overtake the safety car) it would not have changed the outcome of the race.

Race Director’s Evidence

The race director stated that the purpose of article 48.12 was to remove those lapped cars that would “interfere” in the racing between the leaders and that in his view article 48.13 was the one that applied in this case.

The race director also stated that it had long been agreed by all the teams that where possible it was highly desirable for the race to end in a “green” condition (i.e. not under a Safety Car).

Conclusions of the Stewards:

The Stewards consider that the protest is admissible.

Having considered the various statements made by the parties the Stewards determine the following:

That article 15.3 allows the race director to control the use of the safety car, which in our determination includes its deployment and withdrawal.

That although Article 48.12 may not have been applied fully, in relation to the safety car returning to the pits at the end of the following lap, article 48.13 overrides that and once the message “Safety Car in this lap” has been displayed, it is mandatory to withdraw the safety car at the end of that lap.

That notwithstanding Mercedes’ request that the stewards remediate the matter by amending the classification to reflect the positions at the end of the penultimate lap, this is a step that the Stewards believe is effectively shortening the race retrospectively, and hence not appropriate.

Accordingly, the protest is dismissed. The protest deposit is not refunded.

And now it all goes to court?? Really..

Anyway I think the race was conducted appropriately.

Congrats to Max and Red Bull. And yes I would like to see Ferrari rise again.

-Ed-

 

[huub vink]

Hey Huub....
Do you think Gasly would entertain an offer from Alpine-Renault?

Not for next season. Gasly is most probably faster in the Alpha Tauri and he is clearly the number one driver in his team. But when Red Bull can't keep their engine on a competitive level, I'm sure he will accept an offer from Alpine-Renault.

BTW the lock-down measures here are tightened and we are in a sort of curfew. So not much partying here. Not that I would, even if I could. And tomorrow will be just another Monday, with the usual Monday morning problems.

Thanks for your explanation Ed. I think, not having real competition for too long made Mercedes bad losers. I can fully understand that they are disappointed, as I would be in their position as well. But I think they are pushing it too far. Perhaps they will even state that the crash of Latifi was carefully planned by the FIA or even worse Red Bull.

Cheers,
Huub

 

[Panther_99FS]

I think, not having real competition for too long made Mercedes bad losers. I can fully understand that they are disappointed, as I would be in their position as well. But I think they are pushing it too far. Perhaps they will even state that the crash of Latifi was carefully planned by the FIA or even worse Red Bull.

Cheers,
Huub

Which brings up the question as why has there been so much single team dominance with F1 for the past few decades.....We just had 7 years of Mercedes dominance, 4 years of Red Bull dominance preceded that. 2006-2009 had 4 different driver/team champions which did spice it up, before that, 2 years of Renault, and before that, 5 years of Ferrari.

On a side note, it would be interesting to compare those type of dominance numbers to NASCAR and Indycar....

 

[Motormouse]

But the message "safety car in this lap" was not displayed,according to BBC report.

Whatever your leaning the FIA race director manipulated the situation, and no FIA stewards are going to change that decision, because it makes the FIA look like a shambles that don't know their own rules,and lose face.

This race director has already shown his decisions to be flawed this year, like running Spa for 2 laps behind safety car, then calling it a race result.

Personally, I can see F1 breaking away from FIA and forming their own governing body, Jean Todt previously manipulated everything in Ferrari favour, especially during the Schumacher years

Ttfn

Pete

 

[huub vink]

But the message "safety car in this lap" was not displayed,according to BBC report.

Pete,

Strange, as I really thought I had seen the message. But at least the drivers and teams were clearly aware. I don't think there is a requirement to show it on public television.

"Manipulated" is a very strong word. Michael Masi's decision definitely had a big influence on the final result. But what I understand from the FIA report he more or less executed what the teams had agreed up on in the past. Decision are often debatable. I think you will find a hard time to find a Verstappen fan who agreed with the stewards, that Hamilton didn't have any advantage from his short cut in the first round. And to be honest I think I have seen other stewards making different decisions over nearly identical incidents.

In football (soccer) the VAR was introduced to stop all discussions. But in the end the VAR caused only more.

@Panther, you forget the dominance of McLaren and Williams in the 80-ties and 90-ties. (The battles between the team mates Piquet and Mansell!).

Cheers,
Huub

Sitting there as best friends

 

[rvn817j]

Congrats to Max!

Congratulations to Max. One of the best F1 seasons ever.

I watched much of the season and there were calls that went both ways. Both Max and Lewis drove spectacularly all season! (Although I always thought MBenz had something more in their car(s) than other teams. Still can't figure that out.)

Hoping for more "car equality" next year and racing as good as this year.

 

[Panther_99FS]

So ah.....I guess I need to find some Dutch beer here now....
Plenty of Belgium and German stuff, though.....

 

[Led Zeppelin]

It has been a hell of a season, the kind of seaons we only see once every 30 or 30 years. Both Hamilton and Verstappen deserve this title, I'm really happy for Max as I would have been for Lewis, their performances were just amazing. The Q3 lap from Max at Abu Dhabi was coming from another planet, as were the early season performences of Lewis that is nearly 40 and was still not completely recovered from COVID. Two examples among many others. On the other side what I have really hated all though the season is the nasty game played by both RB and Mercedes managements, always interfering with the FIA and the rules interpretation to take any advantage, ready to shoot the other in the back if needed. I'm totally angry against Mercedes protest regarding Abu Dhabi SC from a sportive point of view but if I take some distance I just see a continuity of what happened all season long. The last race weight as much as any other race in the championship balance, no more, no less, so they is no reason they would not continue the same way and RB would have done the same anyway.

 

[wombat666]

"Lewis Hamilton and Toto Wolff will both skip the FIA Prize Giving Gala in Paris on Thursday in the aftermath of the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix controversy.
Mercedes announced on Thursday morning that it would not be pushing ahead with an appeal despite its belief race director Michael Masi did not apply the regulations correctly in the closing stages of Sunday’s race, stating its decision was due to the FIA promising a detailed analysis and action as a result.
Despite the lack of an appeal, Wolff remains “disillusioned” with Formula 1 and the Mercedes team principal says both he and Hamilton will not attend Thursday’s event despite regulations demanding they do."

How bloody minded and petty!

 

[Panther_99FS]

As much as I love Lewis....
IMHO, he should have sucked it up and attended.....

 

[Led Zeppelin]

Well, I was really angry following their first protest but after a few days cool down I understand this. Loosing the championship in the final race following a racing incident is one thing (puncture, engine failure or whatever) but loosing it because somebody gave the win to the other team after he decided to change the rules by himself is another one. Red Bull would have react exactly the same and probably much louder, all in all Mercedes attitude has remained decent despite circumstances.

 

[Ferry_vO]

After the Belgium debacle it was decided by all that races should always finish under green.. Red Bull took a gamble with their tires, Mercedes didn't and lost.

IMHO Toto should be fired by Mercedes, no way they are happy with his behaviour.

 

[wombat666]

Agree Ferry!
After reading through several reports and watching the event (again) I would venture the opinion that Wolff is a bad influence on Hamilton.
The 'Win At All Costs' mentality that appears to permeate Mercedes Benz is corrosive and this comes directly from Wolff.
It's one thing to be competitive, no matter what 'sport', but the constant complaining and attempted undermining of the race officials is unacceptable.

 

[Panther_99FS]

IMHO Toto should be fired by Mercedes, no way they are happy with his behaviour.

Not so sure about this....(Mercedes not being happy)....Why do I say this, 2 reasons...
1) As long as the constructor's championships are coming, how upset exactly is Mercedes?
2) He's Austrian...

 

[huub vink]

Although the team is still known as Mercedes AMG Petronas Formula One team, Mercedes actually owns only on third of the shares. The other shares are owned by sponsor INEOS (a large British privately owned chemicals company) and Toto Wolff.

So I think the chance that Toto Wolff will be fired is quite small.

But it is a pity that their behaviour did throw a shadow over this championship.

And just to prove that at least my observations and memory are still okay..... And one thing I learned in watching Formula One for 40 years. Never believe what the press tells you.

 

[Ferry_vO]

2) He's Austrian...

The last time an Austrian teamed up with Germans because they felt they were treated unfairly and robbed of a victory, the $*** really hit the fan, so I can maybe see your point...