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AI Traffic off to the "Back 40"

falcon409

falcon409

Moderator
Staff member
Setting up some simple traffic for Corsicana and there are 3 of us thus far who have witnessed the same behavior with AI_Stearman (and possibly extends to any tail dragger). The aircraft will back up to head to the rwy and either do a 360 turn and head off across the pasture before eventually finding it's way back to a taxiway or it will turn left or right and go off a varying directions before it final locates the taxiway and figures things out.

I have tried a default Cessna and a while ago I tried the Zlin 142, both of those taxied correctly. . .it seems to be confined to tail draggers. Has anyone come across this?

NOTE: just to eliminate any extra questions so this doesn't drag on waiting for an answer, default aircraft landing at the airplane (all tricycle gear) land, taxi, park, and depart correctly. All aspects of the AFCAD (ADE) have been verified to be correct. . .all hold short lines in place and facing correctly, no disconnected nodes, no undersized parking spots that could cause a problem. . .everything is correct.
 
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My default FSX cub has been doing this for years.
I have UT2 installed in my FSX Deluxe Ed. with SP1 and 2.
The cub is the only tail dragger amongst my fleet of AI, ... rest are fine and taxi w/o issues.

I always thought it's probably a student pilot in the cub, ... learning to taxi, lol ! :nevreness:
 
I can only say I've seen this too when using Piglet's Porter as an AI in one of my grass fields. Never investigated deeper though.
 
whats the cub and maule do? could you copy the air file and certain extracts from the cfg for your ai sterman

I see them as ai traffic and not observed the said problem(however not in p3d nor fsx from memory)
 
Good question. I've seen the Cub running through the shrubbery in another AI file, but I'll try one for it and the Maule at KCRS.
 
I had an AI Stearman at Nantucket that when it was first placed acted normally. After a few days, it began to wander all over the field. I do have one at KORS that operates perfectly every time it departs. Perhaps something in the airport file???
 
Well, checking with the folks on FSDeveloper.com, the popular opinion seems to be that Tail Draggers are a nightmare and should be avoided at all costs. That's unfortunate.
 
Stearmans

What ai Stearman are you using? I have 9 ai Stearmans that I created each with a different MODEX using the Daviator Stearman modded for FSX by eliminating the panel and reducing the texture bmp size at the Daniel Field I also created and they all taxi fine. The one thing I noticed is that after taxiing and entering the runway, they idle a while at the takeoff position and then disappear only to reappear in the air not actually takeoff and I don't know how to fix that. Was going to ask over at FSDevelopers today. I have changed the "ATC View" to behind them and watched the taxi all the way and it seems fine to me.
 
Yes Taildragger are a nightmare

BUT

If you make a normal plane as an AI *** they are far less vulnerable, but FPS heavy upon approach- depending on number and plane and texture heaviness

my 2 cents

Roland

***

You take normal FS2004 or FSX plane
on both you eliminate the panel and leave a blank panel.cfg in (Just Window 00 with no gauge entry - as long as you don not have animation gauges)
On both you alias to a default sound
on a true FSX plane you eliminate the interior model- the file and the line in model.cfg
on aircraft.cfg- depending on your taste- as these show in plane preview, you rename it UI_manufaturer=AI
and you give it a name in title-->Vega AI-->you need that for the Traffic Tools or similar
 
Sound Heads up thank you

I have my ai Stearmans (Daviator Stearman as ai no panel) they are a bit frame heavy true. I had not eliminated the interior mdl which I will do and also alias the sound. I still have the original sound which sounds fantastic but yes it is sucking fps's. I have also just redid the runways in the KDNL to see if they will take off normally now. I also with help from "gadgets" at FSDeveloper have daily ai traffic files eliminating duplicates of the individually textured ai Stearmans so that I HAVE 10 aircraft (1 real GAS Stearman and 8 ai's) and not 4 of each for the four days in one ai traffic file doing touch n go's. I did this last week on thursday and Friday. I am going to do Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday right now in AIFP fantastic program and revise the mdl and sound. You helped me I hope this helps Falcon 409, its HIS help request in this thread.
 
I have watched the AI traffic on my ACG IWM Duxford FSX scenery in P3D,
and noticed a lot of working AI taildraggers.
I had a look at their air files and it seems, they all use the same air file,
only with different names.
Worth a try to borrow the airfile to make a test with the AI stearmans.
 
And the AI Spitfire traffic that came with the RealAir Spitfire? Or am I confused and thinking about FS9?

Priller
 
I am using Dave Eckert's Stearmans, which are 2004 models (N2S_2, N2S_3, PT-13A and USAAF). I made the changes suggested by thunder100, built a simple one aircraft, one short flight out to a local airport and back. The aircraft doesn't show in the Sim which has been a recurring problem for me from the start. I have used 4 other airplanes as a test (non-AI specific) and all of them show, follow the flight plan and return. Not those Stearmans however. A friend of mine is using the same scenery, same ADE airport layout, same AI Stearmans. . .his function correctly. Go figure. Very frustrating.
 
I've tried a plan with the default Cessna 172 and Maule. The Cessna taxis out and takes off perfectly, although it does veer off the runway at the destination, but the Maule spends about ten minutes wandering through buildings and bushes before finally getting airborne. It too veers off after landing but recovers and only does a little bit of gardening before parking.

Maybe tomorrow I'll try the Stearman with a Duxford AI Tiger Moth air file.
 
falcon409 said:
I am using Dave Eckert's Stearmans, which are 2004 models (N2S_2, N2S_3, PT-13A and USAAF). I made the changes suggested by thunder100, built a simple one aircraft, one short flight out to a local airport and back. The aircraft doesn't show in the Sim which has been a recurring problem for me from the start. I have used 4 other airplanes as a test (non-AI specific) and all of them show, follow the flight plan and return. Not those Stearmans however. A friend of mine is using the same scenery, same ADE airport layout, same AI Stearmans. . .his function correctly. Go figure. Very frustrating.
Click to expand...

That "!MAY!" be annother issue

If you have no correct parking space( wrong-too less-not connected by taxiway-too small ) for the plane they do not show

In ADE you add the parking space->give it a destination and use that in aircraft.cfg

atc_flight_number=1649
atc_heavy=0
visual_damage=1
atc_parking_codes=MIL
atc_parking_types=GATE,RAMP
prop_anim_ratio=0.99 //avoid frozen propdisks
atc_id_color=0x00000000
atc_id_font=Verdana,-11,1,600,0

but just MAY

As a try give it the title= ???? of a plane which shows up ( and rename the original )

Roland
 
My Takeoff Issue

I found that my takeoff issue is my fault not the airport's. I converted it from the current KDNL Daniel Field into my 1943 version but I am going to have to study the differences with the modern and the 1943 runways. I just replaced 1943 with modern and put my ai-traffic folder in its scenery folder. The "814" Stearman the first ai in the plan started up on time and though the student seemed to practice taxiing around the apron for a bit headed for Runway 11 and taxied perfectly to it. Stopped at the Hold Short Line (may be my problem for removing them in 1943) announced takeoff on the CTAF and took off beautifully. He is heading right now for Aiken GA so I came over here to report and now back to the sim to watch him land (I hope LOL) More later. Good Luck Falcon409.

I just went back and made sure that all the taxi links are correct and connected and added (even though they were not there in 1943) hold short spots because the ai need them to work. I also put comm's into the airport because in 1943 there WAS a tower and the ai communicate with the tower and all are working perfectly now. I am the least of any kind of expert here, after someone who knows helps me I try and share what little I learned. These were my errs and they fixed my problems. Falcon recheck the airport. Back in the NAS Alameda days, I had no ai because all my taxi links were broken and ADE was not telling me (V160). I also had to add a loop at the takeoff point of rwy 11 because it is a "back-taxi" runway no taxiways connect with it in 1943 and I only had the taxiing going to the end not turning around.

NOW, if my knowledge is a thimble to yours because I have seen your beautiful scenery, then excuse me "preaching to the choir".
 
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Working On The AI and the Back 40

DHasdell just sent me his flightplan to check out for him over in a PM. They are quite complex so I simplified one with one aircraft, the infamous Stearman PT-13A Daviator FSX he is having trouble with. I setup JUST the Stearman from 68F Teague to KCRS Corsicana both default airports using the one line of his flightplan. It does seem that the Stearman has a wide turning radius when it taxis not using differential braking as would have been used to shorten that up but other than that, it worked perfectly. I changed view to the ATC follow view and followed it all the way to KCRS by changing time in the sim to 5 minutes before touchdown. My only problem my fault was I went to Corsicana to watch it and put myself on the runway instead of a parking spot so when it was on final it did a go-around because I was on the runway in the way of landing even though it all kinds of room. Its an FSX thing I am sure. Sent it over to him in a zip file to try out and PM me back how that one works.
 
thunder100 said:
That "!MAY!" be annother issue

If you have no correct parking space( wrong-too less-not connected by taxiway-too small ) for the plane they do not show

In ADE you add the parking space->give it a destination and use that in aircraft.cfg

atc_flight_number=1649
atc_heavy=0
visual_damage=1
atc_parking_codes=MIL
atc_parking_types=GATE,RAMP
prop_anim_ratio=0.99 //avoid frozen propdisks
atc_id_color=0x00000000
atc_id_font=Verdana,-11,1,600,0

but just MAY

As a try give it the title= ???? of a plane which shows up ( and rename the original )

Roland
Click to expand...
All good info Roland, thank you. However all of the points you mention were checked and rechecked before any flight plans were initiated, as they say. . ."This ain't my first rodeo", lol. Despite everything the Stearman is basically on it's own for the time it takes to meander about looking for a line to follow. Once it get's the correct taxi line it works very well. It does saunter into the grass on occasion in tight turns but the end result is. . .eventually it will take off. . .fly to the destination, land and park, then at the prescribed time it'll taxi to the runway (eventually), take off, and return to base. There isn't any way to correct the "meandering" and so I've just accepted it as part of the package.

I know others have given testimony that they don't have the problem or the problem isn't nearly as extreme as we describe. We (Bill and I) have tried numerous aircraft (taildraggers) many of the fixes suggested by members and a few of our own and what it comes down to is that on our set up, with our airplanes, our ADEX airport layout, no tail dragger will simply push back, turn and taxi directly to the runway. . .non will push back, make a very small circle and then taxi to the runway. . .ALL of them will push back, turn left or right (at their discretion) and head out in search of "Gold in them thar hills". . .when none is found they'll find their way home and taxi and take off.
It's just a fact!
 
Out of interest, are the models that are going off-a-wandering taildraggers with free castoring tailwheels? If so, Flying Officer/Officer Cadet A.I. Code cannot turn them and will simply go wherever torque and power send him.

That can be fixed by giving the AI aircraft a steerable tailwheel.

Might be worth looking into?

Ian P.
 
IanP said:
Out of interest, are the models that are going off-a-wandering taildraggers with free castoring tailwheels? If so, Flying Officer/Officer Cadet A.I. Code cannot turn them and will simply go wherever torque and power send him.
That can be fixed by giving the AI aircraft a steerable tailwheel.
Might be worth looking into?
Ian P.
Click to expand...
Thanks Ian. . .something we had checked early on as well. Nothing we have looked into has made any difference. I've even tried a few payware taildraggers and their actions are still the same. I even read someones post that said he had moved the tailwheel forward (contact points) and that it made quite a bit of difference. When I tried it however all I accomplished was planting the tail deeper and deeper under ground, lol. . .the airplane still taxied wherever it wanted to go.
 
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