-
There seems to be an uptick in Political comments in recent months. Those of us who are long time members of the site know that Political and Religious content has been banned for years. Nothing has changed. Please leave all political and religious comments out of the forums.
If you recently joined the forums you were not presented with this restriction in the terms of service. This was due to a conversion error when we went from vBulletin to Xenforo. We have updated our terms of service to reflect these corrections.
Please note any post refering to a politician will be considered political even if it is intended to be humor. Our experience is these topics have a way of dividing the forums and causing deep resentment among members. It is a poison to the community. We appreciate compliance with the rules.
The Staff of SOH
An update on the Spitfires buried in Burma
- Thread starter stansdds
- Start date
nigel richards
Charter Member
Correct Sir, or 'manufactured' using the original part only as a guide.
I still consider the policy of the Royal Navy Historic Flight of prohibiting the use of any aircraft-part recovered from a submerged wreck; both very wise and brave.
wombat666
Administrator
As was the case when a Gloster Gladiator and an early Handley Page Halifax were recovered in remarkably good condition from Nordic waters. May have been off Denmark or Sweden, can't remember exactly where.
However, perhaps a trip to Myanmar would dampen the optimism, conditions were bad when we were there (not my choice BTW!) as part of a Medicins sans Frontiers program, but we hear back via other Medics who are there or recently returned that water and soil pollution is worse than ever.
IIRC the various 'Warlord' factions in China during WW.II supposedly buried many of the aircraft supplied for use against the Japanese as personal insurance for post war confrontations, I'm fairly certain that most (if not all) were thoroughly rooted and of no use.
TeaSea
SOH-CM-2014
Perhaps our discussion is based on our varying definitions.....
As an example, when I walk into a home in need of refurbishment I look at the "bones" of the place. Not necessarily where the walls are, how bad the fixtures or appliances look, or where there may or may not be water damage. Even the roof is negotiable.
In the same way, aircraft are "fixer uppers" on a continual basis (ask anyone who owns one). To me, if the frames in fairly good nick, and there's a plate identifying the airframe and registration, then everything else is pretty much negotiable no matter how bad it may look. Even if most of these aircraft are complete write offs, they are a great repository of parts and patterns.
So, I think the cautious are saying...."dude, don't get your hopes up", which is absolutely true.
But, others of us are saying...."great find, even if they're trashed we'll get something from it". Also true.
Before the discovery there was nothing.
As an example, when I walk into a home in need of refurbishment I look at the "bones" of the place. Not necessarily where the walls are, how bad the fixtures or appliances look, or where there may or may not be water damage. Even the roof is negotiable.
In the same way, aircraft are "fixer uppers" on a continual basis (ask anyone who owns one). To me, if the frames in fairly good nick, and there's a plate identifying the airframe and registration, then everything else is pretty much negotiable no matter how bad it may look. Even if most of these aircraft are complete write offs, they are a great repository of parts and patterns.
So, I think the cautious are saying...."dude, don't get your hopes up", which is absolutely true.
But, others of us are saying...."great find, even if they're trashed we'll get something from it". Also true.
Before the discovery there was nothing.
I had the opportunity some years ago to get a good close look a a Corsair that had been recovered from the bottom of Lake Washington. The aluminum didn't look too bad, the magnesium in the engine was wasted, and the steel was pretty rough. It looked like a viable candidate for a restoration, but you'd be starting with just a fairly intact airframe.
wombat666
Administrator
A bit OT but I should mention this.
Perhaps my view of 'restorations' as compared with 're-manufactured' aircraft are coloured by the Historic/Classic Car movement TeaSea!
At one stage all that was required for a 'restoration' of a rare and much sought after car (let's say a Bugatti) was a chassis plate, eventually this morphed into a situation where a number of 'entrepreneurs' (usually four or five individuals) would pool their resources, buy up a damaged car, divide the carcass into equal shares and 're-birth' five 'genuine' restored vehicles.
The practice became so bad that the Bugatti Owners Club in the UK took a very strong stance about certifying such cars, even to the extent of publicising the fakes so as to avoid fraudulent sales.
Once you could expect to see genuine vehicles in museum collections, sadly this is not true today.
The much touted Donnington collection is riddled with very questionable vehicles, for example, Alfa Romeo built two 'Bi-Motores' and two only. After the Wheatcraft people cut up an historic British 'Brooklands Special' for the engine and a few bits and pieces we had THREE of these Alfas!
I own a Replica Ford GT40 and I always will own a 'Replica', the spirit and the DNA of the real cars is present but it remains a replica.
I guess I can go along with a genuine airframe ID plate as long as an aircraft is identified as a 're-manufactured' one, and only one per ID plate.
However, I'm very cynical about what can be classed as a genuine aircraft today, one can purchase brand new builds for so many types at a price that it devalues the real ones.
I'll get 'orf me soapbox now ........
Perhaps my view of 'restorations' as compared with 're-manufactured' aircraft are coloured by the Historic/Classic Car movement TeaSea!
At one stage all that was required for a 'restoration' of a rare and much sought after car (let's say a Bugatti) was a chassis plate, eventually this morphed into a situation where a number of 'entrepreneurs' (usually four or five individuals) would pool their resources, buy up a damaged car, divide the carcass into equal shares and 're-birth' five 'genuine' restored vehicles.
The practice became so bad that the Bugatti Owners Club in the UK took a very strong stance about certifying such cars, even to the extent of publicising the fakes so as to avoid fraudulent sales.
Once you could expect to see genuine vehicles in museum collections, sadly this is not true today.
The much touted Donnington collection is riddled with very questionable vehicles, for example, Alfa Romeo built two 'Bi-Motores' and two only. After the Wheatcraft people cut up an historic British 'Brooklands Special' for the engine and a few bits and pieces we had THREE of these Alfas!
I own a Replica Ford GT40 and I always will own a 'Replica', the spirit and the DNA of the real cars is present but it remains a replica.
I guess I can go along with a genuine airframe ID plate as long as an aircraft is identified as a 're-manufactured' one, and only one per ID plate.
However, I'm very cynical about what can be classed as a genuine aircraft today, one can purchase brand new builds for so many types at a price that it devalues the real ones.
I'll get 'orf me soapbox now ........