Another USN Bird Neglected in Flight Sim

[TARPSBird]

Considering that there have been several versions of the Grumman S-2 Tracker available over the years, I'm surprised that nobody has yet come out with the Grumman E-1B Tracer, commonly nicknamed the "Willie Fudd" from its old WF-2 designation. The Fudds performed the Airborne Early Warning mission aboard smaller carriers for quite a few years after the E-2 Hawkeye took over the mission on the big decks.

 

[hawkeye52]

I would dearly love to see a Willie Fudd grace the FS9 skies!!!

- Super Fudd 52

 

[harrybasset]

I seem to remember that the now defunct? Indigo organisation, who were developing a Canadair Argus, also showed a Tracer as one of their projects. They did say they would come back this year but I can't find any more about them.

 

[aeromed202]

Not only the WF-2, but what about the E-2C? The one or two freewares out there are kind of lacking. I asked a long time ago if anyone had that on their to-do list but no one had. I don't even think there are any payware ones either other than the ones with Abacus Flight Deck software, and even those look a bit odd. I just can't believe these work horses have been so ignored.

 

[TARPSBird]

aeromed202,
After you posted I went browsing at Flightsim.com and came up with a FS2004 E-2C by Pierre Marchadier, file name gme2hwk.zip. It comes in two versions (4-blade or 8-blade props), is Gmax and a bit more state-of-the-art than Rick Sasala's FS2002 design, you may want to check it out if you haven't already. I adjusted the .cfg file to use the USN textures with the 8-blade model but I'd want to repaint it and Pierre provides a paint kit texture folder for that.
And yes, the so-called "support" aircraft (AEW, ECM, photo, tanker, COD) don't get as much coverage in flight sim as the fighter and attack types.

 

[AndyG43]

It's also worth noting that Rick Sasala kindly uploaded his GMAX source files for both the Hawkeye AND the Greyhound to Free Flight Design, so they are available for anybody to take them up to the next level if they have the skill & the inclination.

 

[Felixthreeone]

There is definitely a hole in FS9 aircraft that needs to be filled by a GOOD E-2C. One with a good VC, soundset, etc...Iris was working on one for a while, but soon after went FSX only in development. I heard that RAZBAM had picked up the project, but again for FSX only. I have had every freeware one made, and even a beta one from Iris. But, unfortunately, I am still waiting and will probably never see a new E-2.

 

[franzi]

This where a nice Project for Mr. Milton Shupe????:salute:

Franzi LOWG

 

[hawkeye52]

...a FS2004 E-2C by Pierre Marchadier, file name gme2hwk.zip. It comes in two versions (4-blade or 8-blade props)...

I don't want to appear ungrateful to the model designer, but the gme2hwk aircraft contain some major inaccuracies. The three most noticeable are that the fuselage port & starboard sides are interchanged aft of the wing leading edge and the crew entry hatch is shown forward of the propeller arc. That hatch position is OK for the C-2A, but on the Hawkeye it is amidship, under the port wing. The port engine has incorrect rotation, altho' the prop pitch is correct for the rotation shown, so it is NOT a simple matter of changing the rotation.

And yes, the USN version needs a repaint as the "light gull gray" is 'way too dark.

Rick's Hawkeye is closer to the real thing, but it too has the crew entry hatch forward of the propeller arc. And the wing-fold geometry is far off the mark.

Both authors' Hawkeyes feature simple 2-D panels.

So as Felixthreeone has stated, "There is definitely a hole in FS9 aircraft that needs to be filled by a GOOD E-2C. One with a good VC, soundset, etc..." :salute:

- H52

 

[airattackimages]

I wish a nice payware one would be released. Apparently there were a few projects out there and going, but none have ever seen the light of day. It's a real bummer, because I'd gladly get in line to pay for one.

I've done some tweaks to gme2hwk, had a friend make a paint for it from a photo I gave him of a VAW-125 Tigertails bird. Definitely made it usable for me, I enjoy flying it now with an actual scheme on it. He had some difficulty doing it because the nose of the aircraft apparently is sectioned into a dozen pieces, and some of them stretch the texture like a balloon. Overall I'm pleased with the new paint.

The other mod I did was increase the roll rate, which was excruciatingly slow and not up to par with the real capability of the E-2. I also think it doesn't have a realistic cruise speed, but I'm not knowledgeable enough to tweak on that one.

View attachment 25431

 

[Milton Shupe]

Personally I like the E1-B better from a general looks and operational standpoint. Those round engines look sweet too.

I downloaded the E-2C and found some issues with the FM too. Contact points area had some issues (pitch, height, one main longer than the other). If you are interested:

[contact_points]
static_pitch = 2
static_cg_height = 5.0
tailwheel_lock = 0
gear_system_type = 1
max_number_of_points = 5


point.0 = 1, 20.5, 0, -5.8, 1181, 0, 1, 39.9, 0.296, 1.5, 0.9516, 4.8, 4.8, 0, 184, 184
point.1 = 1, -1.67, -10.2, -5.5, 1574, 1, 1.5, 0, 0.642, 2.5, 0.8152, 4.5, 5.2, 2, 184, 184
point.2 = 1, -1.67, 10.2, -5.5, 1574, 2, 1.5, 0, 0.642, 2.5, 0.8152, 4.8, 4.9, 3, 184, 184
point.3 = 2, -22.67, 0, 0.00, 787, 0, 0.000, 0.0, 0.000, 0.0, 0.0000, 0.0, 0.0, 9, 0.0, 0.0
point.4 = 2, 23.08, 0, -1.50, 787, 0, 0.000, 0.0, 0.000, 0.0, 0.0000, 0.0, 0.0, 4, 0.0, 0.0

Also found the engines were not properly located, so I changed the parameters as follows:

[GeneralEngineData]

//0=Piston, 1=Jet, 2=None, 3=Helo-Turbine, 4=Rocket, 5=Turboprop
engine_type = 5
fuel_flow_scalar = 1.0
min_throttle_limit = -0.25
engine.0 = 8.3, -10.2, 0.5
engine.1 = 8.3, 10.2, 0.5

The CoG was off so I corrected this way to bring it forward from 35% MAC to 26%:

wing_pos_apex_lon = 1.6 //2.1

Increased the TAS to 304 knots/350MPH ground speed at 15000 feet (not sure about the altitude at which this should be tested).

Other minor changes I do not recall now.

If you want the air and cfg files, I will post them.

She seems to fly very controllably but I am not familiar with her flight characteristics so I did not change roll, pitch, drag, yaw, or lift parameters.

 

[hawkeye52]

....If you want the air and cfg files, I will post them....

Speaking strictly for moi, ABSOLUTELY!!! :salute:

PS: I assume you are referring to gme2hwk.

- h52

 

[Milton Shupe]

Yes, so give these a try. Feel free to comment. If I can improve this with someone's knowledge of the RW dynamics, I will try that. I have no real specs other than basic performance numbers. Interestingly, I thought the roll rate was believable considering the size of that "air foil" on top.

 

[Milton Shupe]

Has anyone tried doing serious data collection on the Grumman E-1B Tracer. A really nice 3-view would be encouragement for this aircraft getting built. Second to that would be good quality interior and cockpit pictures. If someone has those kinds of resources, I would consider this as an SOH project.

 

[franzi]

Hi Milton,

Here is a link to a Special Trackersite http://www.s2ftracker.com/usatracers.htm


Here is a 3-view

Franz LOWG

 

[mgr]

Hiya Milton,

Has anyone tried doing serious data collection on the Grumman E-1B Tracer. A really nice 3-view would be encouragement for this aircraft getting built. Second to that would be good quality interior and cockpit pictures. If someone has those kinds of resources, I would consider this as an SOH project.

You would make my day if you build a tracker :salute: Already have my Karel Doorman carrier ready for it. Got some cockpit shots, will send when i'm home.

Regards,

Marcel

 

[franzi]

And here Specifications, but only for the Grumman S-2 Tracker





Grumman S-2 Tracker
Prototype first flight on 4 December 1952.
Entered service in February 1954.

Specifications
Crew: four (two pilots, two detection systems operators)
Length: 43 ft 6 in (13.26 m)
Wingspan: 72 ft 7 in (22.12 m)
Height: 17 ft 6 in (5.33 m)
Wing area: 485 ft² (45.06 m²)
Empty weight: 18,315 lb (8,310 kg)
Loaded weight: 23,435 lb (10,630 kg)
Max takeoff weight: 26,147 lb (11,860 kg)
Powerplant: 2× Wright R-1820-82WA radial engines, 1,525 hp (kW) each
Maximum speed: 280 mph (450 km/h) at sea level
Cruise speed: 150 mph (240 km/h)
Range: 1,350 mi (2,170 km) or 9 hours endurance
Service ceiling: 22,000 ft (6,700 m)
Armament: 2× homing torpedoes, depth charges, or mines in the bomb bay;
6× underwing hardpoints for torpedoes, depth charges, or
rockets



Franz LOWG

 

[Rep]

Hello gentlemen,

I will look at my 3d files in the next week in order to update the plane.
Any input, data on mistakes I 've done are welcome. If you have pictures, It's great.
I work on the C2 model too, and I did a simple VC too.

Cheers
Pierre

 

[Milton Shupe]

Thank you Franz; that's a good start.

 

[Milton Shupe]

Hiya Milton,



You would make my day if you build a tracker :salute: Already have my Karel Doorman carrier ready for it. Got some cockpit shots, will send when i'm home.

Regards,

Marcel

Hello Marcel, thank you for sharing ... sounds great