Panther_99FS
Retired SOH Administrator
And his meltdown today proves just that.....
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The Staff of SOH
Been Trying To Tell You For Years That Vettel Is Spoiled...
- Thread starter Panther_99FS
- Start date
manfredc3
SOH-CM-2022
I must agree.
Max did nothing to jeopardize Vettel's race. Even Hamilton and Rosberg went off track and clearly gained benefit, but were not penalized.
Despite that, Max would have been better off letting Vettel pass when told, as that would have likely gotten him closer to Raikkonen in the overall standings.
Vettel should be at least reprimanded for his tirade. He was way out of line.
Max did nothing to jeopardize Vettel's race. Even Hamilton and Rosberg went off track and clearly gained benefit, but were not penalized.
Despite that, Max would have been better off letting Vettel pass when told, as that would have likely gotten him closer to Raikkonen in the overall standings.
Vettel should be at least reprimanded for his tirade. He was way out of line.
Roxane-21
SOH-CM-2023
I partially agree about Hamilton (though his benefit has been turned into nul since the SC came out right after turn 3), but Rosberg was bumped off track by Verstappen. Verstappen should have been penalized for turn 1-3 incident, not Rosberg.
wombat666
Administrator
1)"Sebastian Vettel has been given a ten-second time penalty for driving ‘dangerously or erratically’ while defending fourth place from Red Bull’s Daniel Ricciardo in the closing stages of Sunday’s Formula 1 Gran Premio de Mexico 2016".
In addition to a 10-second penalty, Vettel was also handed two penalty points on his license, bringing his total to six points in the last 12 months."
2)"Max Verstappen had five seconds added to his race time for going off track and gaining an advantage whilst battling the four-time champion. Verstappen was also given a single penalty point for the incident, putting him on a total of five."
I imagine Vettel collected a few 'extras' from Charlie Whiting ........
......while 'Dr.Marko' (Doctor? He was only a bloody Dentist!) gave Verstappen a good talking too post Suzuka, pointing out that he could use a lesson on driving smoothly from his 'Team Leader'. (My Italics.)
As much as I like Mexico and the people I really dislike the current Mickey Mouse circuit, the old one was much better and hosted some great racing.
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In addition to a 10-second penalty, Vettel was also handed two penalty points on his license, bringing his total to six points in the last 12 months."
2)"Max Verstappen had five seconds added to his race time for going off track and gaining an advantage whilst battling the four-time champion. Verstappen was also given a single penalty point for the incident, putting him on a total of five."
I imagine Vettel collected a few 'extras' from Charlie Whiting ........
......while 'Dr.Marko' (Doctor? He was only a bloody Dentist!) gave Verstappen a good talking too post Suzuka, pointing out that he could use a lesson on driving smoothly from his 'Team Leader'. (My Italics.)As much as I like Mexico and the people I really dislike the current Mickey Mouse circuit, the old one was much better and hosted some great racing.
[h=5]
[/h]
Roxane-21, I think I mentioned before that these things are decided by the stewards, who have more information and images that we have. The incident was investigated by the stewards during the race and the decision was made. I am glad to see you that you obviously are better informed and have a better knowledge about the rules than the stewards. Although I don't know the reasoning of the steward, I can imagine that they took in account that Hamilton blocked a wheel in front of Verstappen, on which Verstappen needed to react and which made his car slide side wards (against Rosberg's car). I think the stewards also took into account that Rosberg could not avoid Verstappen, which is why he wasn't penalised by the stewards.
But this is just my view on things of course,
Cheers,
Huub
wombat666
Administrator
Roxane-21
SOH-CM-2023
I was not saying that Verstappen SHOULD have been penalized. I was only reacting after Manfred suggested that Rosberg should have been penalized. I agree with you and FIA's stewards, none of them needed to be penalized in this case. But IF they had made the decision to penalized someone (they sometimes make strange decisions) they would have more probably penalized Verstappen since he bumped Rosberg and forced him off track.
I am as well informed as everybody, since I watch the races on TV and I have seen this action this way. But for your information, stewards make their decisions after watching stills from the same TV footage you and I can see on our TV set. They use teams' technical datas as well, but in this case this would have been useless.
wombat666
Administrator
The problem(s) really are squarely with the FIA.
Their regulations are often made on the spur of the moment and not thought through to a logical conclusion.
And the Poison Dwarf still seems to have way too much influence.
The only way to stop cutting corners and running outside the track limits is an aggressive one, raise the kerb ripple strips to the extent that a driver running wide will find his car damaged enough to at least require a repair.
If one driver is proven to have aggressively forced another off track (difficult to assess but it can be done) then a mandatory drive through penalty should be ordered.
There is a difference between 'racing' for a position and 'dive bombing' a competitor in an 'optimistic' attempt at passing.
Gravel traps are fine in most circumstances but (for example) would not work in Mexico.
Running off at 300+K into gravel would probably launch a car into the air or dig it in and roll it big time.
As I understand it, gravel traps fell out of favor with circuit owner for a number of reasons, chiefly the cost of maintenance, as well as the fact that many circuits host other categories and track days.
Everything from MotoGP to Club Days need different conditions, as a frequent visitor to to Philip Island traps (on both two and four wheels!) I speak from some limited experience.
Track conditions aside, Race Stewards should be permanent professional staff that have been through an annual and vigorous qualifying course, not a bunch of locals and a long retired F1 driver.
To be frank, any penalty should be addressed immediately, NOT post race when drivers are removed from the podium, as in Mexico.
We have the same problem in Australia, CAMS run a Race Control staff headed by Tim Schenkin, not much of a racer in his day and far too old these days, while the Driving Standards Marshall is usually an out of touch and mediocre individual.
The most memorable of these characters is best known for binning his factory Commodore in the morning warm up at a Bathurst 1000!
MotoGP seems to be run by the 'right people', the competitors are apparently well aware of the regulations and race management are usually well qualified to deal with most issues.
The FIA need to take notice of the FIM approach, it might not be perfect but it is far more practical.
Their regulations are often made on the spur of the moment and not thought through to a logical conclusion.
And the Poison Dwarf still seems to have way too much influence.
The only way to stop cutting corners and running outside the track limits is an aggressive one, raise the kerb ripple strips to the extent that a driver running wide will find his car damaged enough to at least require a repair.
If one driver is proven to have aggressively forced another off track (difficult to assess but it can be done) then a mandatory drive through penalty should be ordered.
There is a difference between 'racing' for a position and 'dive bombing' a competitor in an 'optimistic' attempt at passing.
Gravel traps are fine in most circumstances but (for example) would not work in Mexico.
Running off at 300+K into gravel would probably launch a car into the air or dig it in and roll it big time.
As I understand it, gravel traps fell out of favor with circuit owner for a number of reasons, chiefly the cost of maintenance, as well as the fact that many circuits host other categories and track days.
Everything from MotoGP to Club Days need different conditions, as a frequent visitor to to Philip Island traps (on both two and four wheels!) I speak from some limited experience.
Track conditions aside, Race Stewards should be permanent professional staff that have been through an annual and vigorous qualifying course, not a bunch of locals and a long retired F1 driver.
To be frank, any penalty should be addressed immediately, NOT post race when drivers are removed from the podium, as in Mexico.
We have the same problem in Australia, CAMS run a Race Control staff headed by Tim Schenkin, not much of a racer in his day and far too old these days, while the Driving Standards Marshall is usually an out of touch and mediocre individual.
The most memorable of these characters is best known for binning his factory Commodore in the morning warm up at a Bathurst 1000!
MotoGP seems to be run by the 'right people', the competitors are apparently well aware of the regulations and race management are usually well qualified to deal with most issues.
The FIA need to take notice of the FIM approach, it might not be perfect but it is far more practical.