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Piccadilly Lily and FSCast B-17

S

SSI01

Charter Member
Piccadilly Lily is an excellent addition to the FS-Cast B-17's texture list but adding it and then going for a hop with the new bird brought back an old problem I'd forgotten about, which is the aircraft's ability to be turned while taxiing. There are a number of other B-17s in FSX that taxi very nicely indeed using differential braking as applied by the flight model along w/rudder application. I can go through all the flight models to find the correct one, but before I depart on that safari, I'd like to know - is there a setting in the differential brake section of the aircraft cfg that can be altered slightly to give the engines/brakes that will be applied for a given turn a little more authority?

I do not have a joystick w/four individual throttles and two separate brake pedals. Trying to compensate.
 
I have the Aeroplane Heaven B-17F and B-17G and they both turn well without using differential braking, and even tighter WITH differential braking. No rudder pedals, I use the joystick twist while tapping the brakes. Here is the [brakes] section of their .cfg files if you want to give it a try with the FS-Cast B-17:

[brakes]
toe_brakes_scale=0.75
parking_brake=1
differential_braking_scale = 1.0

Also, it helps to have a swiveling tailwheel. Try using 55 in the eighth number of the tailwheel line in the [contact_points] section.
 
Ah, many thanks TARPSBird. I made a double-check of the cockpit to be certain the tailwheel was unlocked before starting any turns (last thing I wanted was Savage burning three ft off my tail feathers for a rookie trick like forgetting the TW lock) but like you I noted the TW doesn't swivel.

Allow me to graft that section into PL's config file and see if that does the trick.

Add for this post - I found the FSC B-17's config file has contact points 0 through 4 commented out. I wonder what they're for? Also, how do you find the TW line in the contact points section?
 
SSI01 said:
Ah, many thanks TARPSBird. I made a double-check of the cockpit to be certain the tailwheel was unlocked before starting any turns (last thing I wanted was Savage burning three ft off my tail feathers for a rookie trick like forgetting the TW lock) but like you I noted the TW doesn't swivel.

Allow me to graft that section into PL's config file and see if that does the trick.

Add for this post - I found the FSC B-17's config file has contact points 0 through 4 commented out. I wonder what they're for? Also, how do you find the TW line in the contact points section?
Click to expand...
I'd be curious to see if you fix the steering issue.

Here's the [contact_points] section:

[contact_points]
//point.0= 1.000, 30.417, 0.000, -15.050, 1400.000, 0.000, 1.562, 65.000, 1.243, 1.400, 0.873, 5.000, 7.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000
//point.1= 1.000, 30.417, 0.000, -15.550, 1400.000, 0.000, 1.562, 65.000, 1.243, 1.400, 0.873, 5.000, 7.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000
//point.2= 1.000, 30.417, 0.000, -15.250, 1400.000, 0.000, 1.562, 65.000, 1.243, 1.400, 0.873, 5.000, 7.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000
//point.3= 1.000, 30.417, 0.000, -15.050, 1400.000, 0.000, 1.562, 65.000, 1.243, 1.400, 0.873, 5.000, 7.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000
//point.4= 1.000, 30.417, 0.000, -15.050, 1400.000, 0.000, 1.562, 65.000, 1.243, 1.400, 0.2873, 5.000, 7.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000
point.5= 1.000, 3.553, -10.500, -8.300, 1600.000, 1.000, 2.562, 0.000, 0.770, 1.400, 0.4873, 8.000, 9.000, 2.000, 0.000, 0.000
point.6= 1.000, 3.553, 10.500, -8.300, 1600.000, 2.000, 2.562, 0.000, 0.770, 1.400, 0.4873, 7.500, 8.500, 3.000, 0.000, 0.000
point.7= 1.000, -34.541, 0.000, -3.150, 1400.000, 0.000, 1.562, 180.000, 0.453, 1.300, 0.3873, 4.000, 3.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000
point.8= 2.000, 18.167, 0.000, -6.000, 1174.803, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 5.000, 0.000, 0.000
point.9= 2.000, -23.167, 0.000, -7.000, 1174.803, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 6.000, 0.000, 0.000
point.10= 2.000, 6.417, 52.050, -0.6, 1174.803, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 9.000, 0.000, 0.000
point.11= 2.000, 6.417, -52.050, -0.6, 1574.803, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 4.000, 0.000, 0.000
point.12= 2.000, -34.541, 21.463, 2.0, 1174.803, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 9.000, 0.000, 0.000
point.13= 2.000, -34.541, -21.463, 2.0, 1574.803, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 4.000, 0.000, 0.000

The main and tail wheels are points 5, 6 and 7 as indicated by the = 1.000.

If you look at the next number, point.7 is located -34.541. That's your tailwheel. The eighth setting is at 180.00 (degrees).

I've tried and tried to get the aircraft to steer properly but was never successful.

As for the initial entries 0 through 4, I haven't a clue. With the exception of point.4 - #11 at 0.2873 (which might be a typo), all the settings are identical.
 
With those first five contact point lines commented out I'd go down to line 5 and start the numbering over at "point.0". Then change that red "180" value on the tailwheel line to "55" per my previous post.
 
Well, RW events were occurring too, but this evening I finally made the changes recommended and didn't see any difference whatsoever in performance. i have a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro w/twisting handle, and made the changes as noted. Only way I could make them have even a modicum of effect was to continually press and release the trigger button on the joystick, which is the "brake" button for me, while at the same time doing a full twist on the handle in the desired direction of turn. I found by pressing the button between four and five times/second w/low RPM I could get a W - I - D - E turn out of the airplane which takes up most of the ramp and is totally unsat for taxiing to the EOR, since going just a fraction beyond the desired amount of braking to effect a turn results in a full stop for the aircraft which is of course followed by a good goose of the throttles to resume movement. Any 45 or 90 degree turns on the ground are impossible with this aircraft. In "12 O'Clock High" there is a scene showing an expertly-handled B-17 actually turning around on a circular hardstand - 180 degrees - with only a slight overrun of the hardstand area. It's not unreasonable to expect the sim aircraft to do the same thing, or very near it, as it's true-to-life performance. One major drawback to purchasing this aircraft is the taxiing problem noted. It is exasperating and causes one to lose enthusiasm for any further involvement with the bird.

For now the only way to get anywhere on the ground except on straight taxiways is to use "Y" and slew around in the turn. Not so hot.

PS - I put in the "55" as per recommended, the tail wheel remains firmly locked straight fore-and-aft. I wonder, if we are looking at contacting the author of the flight model and asking for a fix on this problem?
 
SSI01, at this point I am all out of ideas for correcting the wide turn problem. :banghead: If there is yet another possible fix for this maybe somebody else will make us aware of it.
 
Don't know if this will be any help but these are the contact points from a B-17 I had in my Sim.

[contact_points]
point.0= 1, -33.250, 0.000, -6.450, 1575, 0, 1.200, 0.000, 0.824, 2.500, 0.622, 5.500, 5.500, 0
point.1= 1, 8.978, -10.847, -10.500, 1575, 1, 2.200, 0.000, 0.845, 2.499, 0.955, 6.700, 6.700, 2
point.2= 1, 8.978, 10.847, -10.500, 1575, 2, 2.200, 0.000, 0.845, 2.499, 0.955, 6.200, 6.200, 3
point.3= 2, 0.000, -51.750, 2.417, 1575, 0, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 5
point.4= 2, 0.000, 51.750, 2.417, 1575, 0, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 6
point.5= 2, -52.638, 0.000, -1.428, 1575, 0, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 9
point.6= 2, 25.000, 0.000, -3.583, 1575, 0, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 4
point.7= 2, -16.333, 0.000, 6.833, 1575, 0, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 7
point.8= 2, -1.000, 0.000, -1.333, 1575, 0, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 8
point.9= 5, -6.450, -3.100, -3.800, 1600, 0, 0.000, 50.000, 0.000, 0.000, 1.000, 1.000, 1.200, 0
point.10= 5, -6.450, 3.100, -3.800, 1600, 0, 0.000, 50.000, 0.000, 0.000, 1.000, 1.100, 1.500, 0

static_pitch= 5.450
static_cg_height= 8.700
gear_system_type=0
tailwheel_lock = 1
 
Well, MrZippy, I'm doing mids for the next two nights BUT will take a little time in the AM to implant these and see if they have any good effect. I'll be sure to let us all know what the results are but hopefully your input will be the fix!

More to come.
 
SSI01 said:
Well, MrZippy, I'm doing mids for the next two nights BUT will take a little time in the AM to implant these and see if they have any good effect. I'll be sure to let us all know what the results are but hopefully your input will be the fix!

More to come.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a winner! I only flew that bird on a couple of occasions and don't remember any difficulties with sharp turns.

abd91d03-ee43-4f0b-96eb-cc429c8f5750.jpeg
 
Sorry to take so long to get back to you on this, feeling a little under the weather but made the test install of the contact points. I got a levitating B-17 (a first, esp. w/a full bomb-gas-ammo load - wonder if Boeing knows about this?) which is nothing but I did note the turning radius is still massive. I thank you for your contact points but think I'm going to have to join the legion of those who may be a little disappointed in this otherwise very good aircraft's performance, at least as far as ground handling is concerned. I suppose if one had a joystick or other controller with four throttles (not mine) and a twisting stick w/differential braking available (as I DO have) you might get it to behave as the original but that's going beyond the pale for me. This is supposed to be fun, not frustrating.

Got a new install to deal with so moving on to that.
 
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