Questions about aircraft manufacturer branding, IP, trademark, etc.

[TerraBuilder]

I was wondering - under what legal auspices is our hobby (or, a profession, in some cases) functioning, with respect to creating virtual digital versions of branded items? As in, are Boeing, Airbus, Lockheed Martin, Embraer, Cessna, etc. minding what we do?

This has probably been discussed before, but I have been working on my SpacePort spaceflight module for MSFS2020/2024, and wanted to model SpaceX spaceflight hardware, namely, Falcon rocket and Dragon capsule (including interior). I've looked up specifically what are the requirements for SpaceX. AI came up with something along the lines of "better check with their legal department, because otherwise it is a copyright/brand/IP infringement". However, haven't we been doing just that all these years? Creating virtual versions of real-life aircraft, along with branding? Moreover, creating liveries of real-life airlines and their brands?

So, my question, I suppose, is - is there something specific, as far as legality, that lets our hobby off the hook as far as the branding and IP is concerned? And, can I use that same premise to create SpaceX hardware?

So far, I created NASA hardware, and since they are a governmental agency, their copyright laws are somewhat laxed, although they have strict usage guidelines for their "meatball" logo and a few other things.

Any input on this would be appreciated!

 

[Priller]

Hi,

Regarding your questions "is there something specific, as far as legality, that lets our hobby off the hook as far as the branding and IP is concerned? And, can I use that same premise to create SpaceX hardware?", there is nothing that lets us off the hook. It's goodwill and its very arbitrary.

Devs had issues with releasing products made by Cessna, Dassault and others. So its up to the different firms really. And given the management of SpaceX, I would be very careful. The workaround seems to be adapting the names of the products. But if you release scenery with SpaceX elements in them, if that isn't reflected in the name of your product, you should be good.

Priller

 

[Sbob]

I guess my first question would be.. are you a cop?

Seriously, some of us have had these discussions over the years and my take-away is to NOT poke the anthill or wake up the bear.
The majority of the FS community (sellers, buyers, up and down loaders) respect the legal issues enough that we aren't targets.
In the end, we're fans of the end products and that relationship cuts both ways.

Down-the-road a bit, it might be wise to consider how we deal with subjects such as Abandonware and older sims, but not right now.

 

[Tako_Kichi]

If it's a payware scenery you are making then you could be looking at a raft of legal problems if you use a Company's intellectual property without their fully documented legal permission. If it's a freeware scenery I would still be careful if you are using logos etc. from a currently active business as some (like Priller pointed out) are exceptionally protective of their corporate identities (Cessna/Textron being a prime example). I would imagine, given the owner, that SpaceX would be sue happy from the get go if you even used something similar to their products never mind a direct copy of their products or logos and/or branding!

As a freeware developer and repainter I have used countless logos countless times with no issues (so far) but in almost every case the logos I used were from companies that are no longer in business (defunct aircraft manufacturer logos and old airline logos or paint schemes, etc.) and therefore there was no active company likely to come after me for use of their intellectual property. There is an old adage that could be applied here "If in doubt, leave it out!"

 

[TerraBuilder]

Hi,

Regarding your questions "is there something specific, as far as legality, that lets our hobby off the hook as far as the branding and IP is concerned? And, can I use that same premise to create SpaceX hardware?", there is nothing that lets us off the hook. It's goodwill and its very arbitrary.

Devs had issues with releasing products made by Cessna, Dassault and others. So its up to the different firms really. And given the management of SpaceX, I would be very careful. The workaround seems to be adapting the names of the products. But if you release scenery with SpaceX elements in them, if that isn't reflected in the name of your product, you should be good.

Priller

Thanks, yes, I am beginning to feel as if it is exactly that, goodwill. The thing is, I would be dealing with SpaceX, which is not your regular company. I did release my Kennedy Space Center scenery, and it does have a SpaceX hangar with a big SpaceX logo on it's side, just as IRL.

What I want to do is actual, flyable hardware, including rocket and a space capsule (Falcon and Dragon), with full interior and instrumentation. And that, I feel, is a bit more "sensitive", in my opinion. In any case, SpaceX has a web page dealing with this, including the email link for a direct contact, so I will definitely reach out to them.

Failing that - I will consider adapting the names, as @Priller suggested, something obvious, like XSpace, Falken, Drakken...

 

[TerraBuilder]

I guess my first question would be.. are you a cop?

No, definitely not a cop by a long shot