• There seems to be an uptick in Political comments in recent months. Those of us who are long time members of the site know that Political and Religious content has been banned for years. Nothing has changed. Please leave all political and religious comments out of the forums.

    If you recently joined the forums you were not presented with this restriction in the terms of service. This was due to a conversion error when we went from vBulletin to Xenforo. We have updated our terms of service to reflect these corrections.

    Please note any post refering to a politician will be considered political even if it is intended to be humor. Our experience is these topics have a way of dividing the forums and causing deep resentment among members. It is a poison to the community. We appreciate compliance with the rules.

    The Staff of SOH

  • Server side Maintenance is done. We still have an update to the forum software to run but that one will have to wait for a better time.

SATA connectors rubbish

lefty

lefty

SOH-CM-2023
Does anyone else out there hate SATA ? Supposedly a neat modern alternative to IDE, but the feeblest design in mechanical terms. The connections are loose - there is no 'grip' or click to tell you the connection has been made, and they just sort of hang there and you hope for the best. Quite often they just fall out.

ESATA is even worse - my backup drive (Seagate) has an ESATA connector but neither I nor apparently anyone else has managed to get it to work - we had to resort to dear old USB. There are countless threads about having to file bits off the plastic surround to get it to connect. This is CRAP engineering.

Why is it the electronic geniuses let us down with the mechanical side of computers ? Poor fit of components, no standardisation of screw threads, etc. Are all the competent engineers employed solely on laptops ?

No matter how hard I try, the inside of my case is a nightmare of wires, power connectors, the spaghetti that comes with every case for the accessories, etc etc. If anyone knows of a real way round this, let me know, please ! (Apart from the obvious, buying a laptop, that is.)
 
I have SATA hard drives in my computer and the cable is far smaller than the old IDE cable and much easier to route and get it out of the air flow. I've not tried any external SATA devices.
 
Haven't used any eSATA stuff here yet, but as for internal SATA...I like em. Haven't had any problems with cables coming undone here but I can see where that might be a problem in some routings. I used to used the round wrapped IDE cables before SATA to help with routing and airflow but those can be a problem too since most are wrapped with some pretty stiff tubing too.

When routing cables inside the case, I use a lot of zip ties & the 3M sticky zip-tie bases. Then I bundle wires together as much out of the way as possible. In my last case, an Antec P180, I had to purchase longer SATA cables to reach my drives and the extra length helps with being able to bundle them and keep em out of the airflow. In another machine I also lengthened my power supply harness (solder & heatshrink) so I could route the cables behind the MoBo tray.

Here's a couple shots of the inside of my P180 case. It's still about the same setup except the optical drive is is now SATA and in the very top bay and the two HDDs are now in the lower compartment (by the power supply). Both instances are where I used the longer SATA cables.
 
You have the luxury of being able to accommodate a case about twice the size of mine! (CoolerMaster Wavemaster)

If I had all those acres of box, things could be organised a little better - but I can't justify something the size of a double-decker bus in my wee computer den.
 
Somewhere months ago, I read of a new sata connector that was improved and beefed up the frailty of the current ones. I like the right angle ones so the weight of the cable isn't so much, plus it keeps the cables from dangling over the mobo so much.
 
Re SATA connectors rubbish

Yes, the connector is rubbish, and so is the standard length for a SATA cable. I cannot get 90cm anywhere which is what I need. (in theory, SATA supports upto 150cm - but best keep it under 100cm length according to all the Googling I have done.

I had a problem where one of the cables was partially not in and after a lot of troubleshooting,reading the error logs in XP, re-installation, testings, etc., I am convinced it was this cable that was the root cause of my errors. Unfortunately for me I can only get the 50cm type cable, and with three drives in their drive bay in the lower part of the case, a very large graphics card obstructing, the bottom drive is a real stretch to the connector on the motherboard.

Your right about some sort of clip or retainer - this probably would have prevented all the hassles I experienced
 
lefty said:
You have the luxury of being able to accommodate a case about twice the size of mine! (CoolerMaster Wavemaster)

If I had all those acres of box, things could be organised a little better - but I can't justify something the size of a double-decker bus in my wee computer den.
Click to expand...

The Wavemaster (nice case BTW) isn't all that much smaller than the P180 sereis I'm using and it's nearly identical in layout to a Chieftec case that I built my previous rig inside back in '02. Good case. Cable routing shouldn't be a problem with that one either except you probably won't be able to run the PS wiring behind the MoBo tray. In that case, bundle the PS wiring around the front of the MoBo or across to the left side of the case and drop it down onto the MoBo (depending on where your MoBo's connectors are) and use clips/sticky-pads/zip-ties to hold the harness out of the airflow.

Like waco suggests, 90° SATA cables might help to dress things up too depending on your cable routing scheme.

You can get SATA cables with spring latches on em and lengths up to 39" (990mm) too. In particular, http://www.satacables.com/ has a good variety of lengths and latching cables.

The cables I used for that big P180 case are just 19" and that gets the optical drive up to the top of the case and both HDDs down into that lower compartment.
 
It's the 8800GTX card that causes most problems - it gets in the way of everything, including the memory modules.

I suppose having water cooling doeasn't help either.

But look at this - whichever cretin designed the 8800 stuck the power connectors on the side, so when you put the side on the case, it bends the wires at 90 degrees - this cannot be a good thing.

Here is the mess in all its glory.
 
Ahhh...ein wasserbomb! :d

Yeah I can see those 8800GTX connectors being a PitA.
My 8800GTS has them coming straight off the back instead of out the side like yours...but it's still a big clumsy bugger to work around!
I've seen a lot of worse "spider-nests"...and have done more than a few myself. I normally don't get too super-neat as long as I get good airflow through my cases. It does look like you should have enough extra wire to do a little more custom routing. Without seeing it in person that is hard to tell though.

I think I would try routing the PCI-E and IDE power cables towards the front of the case and run them down the left edge of the drive cages (the side nearest you when facing the open case). Then shoot back to the vid-card or tuck around to the drives. The CPU power cable I would run along the bottom side of the PS cage and down to the board and the large MoBo power cable could be bundled in with the drive cables across the front of the MoBo. The SATA and case switch/LED wires could be bundled together and tucked along the front of the MoBo...left or right side of the drive cage, whichever works out best.
For the two optical drives, I'd try a couple 90° SATA cables. It looks like the HDD will need a straight connector according to the close quarters with your vid-card.

Being water-cooled, you don't need to be quite as fussy about routing cables out of airflow as on an air-cooled rig...but it still is nice if you can route em out of the way too. To get really neat, I've seen quite a few folks actually custom-length their PS cables to fit the case/MoBo combo they're using. Shorten or lengthen them as needed to eliminate any loops in the cables. Lotsa work to do that though...solder & heatshrink the splices on each wire. I've never shortened a cable though, just lengthened a few...I usually just find a back corner to stuff the extra bit and zip-tie it up good.
Bad part about doing that is if you wind up changing the MoBo or case then you might need to redo all that custom length work again.
 
Well I should do a bit of tidying up, but lengthening or shortening power cables - no chance !

My point has been that it really needs an ergonomics man to look at the whole concept of a pc and go back to square one. The motherboard for a start - what a nightmare (apart from the fact they are so fickle - mine can never decide whether it is going to give me any USB connection or not, and is reluctant to accept extra memory which by rights should be fine for it.)

All drives, hard or optical, and all accessory cards, should slot in to a modular system which would include a power connection - there should be no need for cables at all. Cooling should be rationalised - all these fans are so primitive.(and noisy)

In fact, the best way I can sum it up is that looking into a PC is like looking under the bonnet (sorry, hood) of a 1950's car - a plumber's nightmare, and an electrical disaster. We have moved on since then - if we are to continue to need the PC - and I suppose that is debatable - let's give it a makeover.
 
lefty said:
My point has been that it really needs an ergonomics man to look at the whole concept of a pc and go back to square one.
Click to expand...

Aww.. c'mon lefty.. whaddayawant for a few bucks??

it took the PC industry 20 to realize that the BACK of the computer was the dumbest place to connect peripherals (just because it was unsightly?) that you wanted to remove and re-connect regularly for mtce. or replacement. ( When I was working in a shop we made the equivalent of a docking station for all our workbench monitors, printers modems etc that we used for setup and trouble shooting.. and our shop systems had all connectors on a front or side plate)

Now you want to have everything INSIDE make sense too?? I'd say wait 20 years, but if it was neat and easy people might get the idea you don't have to call the Geek Squad and pay them $70 an hour to hook up a hard drive... so wait 25 or so :173go1:

Computers are supposed to look and BE incomprehensible to the average human... there are hundreds of jobs to be lost if they made sense.

Rob
 
lefty said:
Well I should do a bit of tidying up, but lengthening or shortening power cables - no chance !

My point has been that it really needs an ergonomics man to look at the whole concept of a pc and go back to square one. The motherboard for a start - what a nightmare (apart from the fact they are so fickle - mine can never decide whether it is going to give me any USB connection or not, and is reluctant to accept extra memory which by rights should be fine for it.)

All drives, hard or optical, and all accessory cards, should slot in to a modular system which would include a power connection - there should be no need for cables at all. Cooling should be rationalised - all these fans are so primitive.(and noisy)

In fact, the best way I can sum it up is that looking into a PC is like looking under the bonnet (sorry, hood) of a 1950's car - a plumber's nightmare, and an electrical disaster. We have moved on since then - if we are to continue to need the PC - and I suppose that is debatable - let's give it a makeover.
Click to expand...

As for the customized cable lengths. That's pretty much just for the ultra-neatfreaks among us. Most of us make do with what we got (including me most of the time) and have to live with a few imperfections in how we'd really like to see things set up. My current rig isn't "perfect" to me but I didn't want to spend any more time and effort getting things laid out just like I wanted it either so I fudged a couple things.

I do agree with ya that there should be a little more forethought given to component placement. Every brand MoBo has it's plugs, RAM slots, etc in a different location than the next guy...not conducive to easy component replacement or even initial placement. This one is the biggest PitA that bugs me.

As for the powered-buss for cards. That's how it used to be (PCI, ISA, & AGP) until these vid cards started to need so darn much juice that those tiny little traces of copper on the board just werent capable of handling the load anymore. If we'd all go back to nice low-powered cards then there isn't a need for the extra power connections to carry the needed current...but that isn't gonna happen for quite a while. Probably not until we start to see common room-temp superconductors.

Same thing goes for the heat issue. As hardware gets faster & faster, it also requires more power. And given the thermal efficiency of the semi-conductors that we have to work with there's always gonna be more heat generated as we run faster. Heck I remember my first OC'd rig, a 133MHz Pentium running @ 266MHz, and it's huge (for the time) 2"x2"x2" heatsink. Looking at my current rig...that old CPU heatsink wouldn't even take care of my vid-card much less my current CPU!

I look at as every technological step forward is just another step backwards in a different direction. A compromise that is just never balanced.

I'd liken the insides of a computer more to under the hood of a modern car (although I understand your point when talking about those 50's British buggies! Especially that wonderful Lucas electrical garbage! :d). Over here, back in the 50s-60s you could actually open the hood and see the engine, spark plugs, carb, etc...I crack the hood on my 1997 Ford truck and I can't even see the valve/tappet/camshaft covers for the forest of wiring and hoses that surround it.
Too many wires running too many places... Yes, they should work on making it simpler.

Oh well...we can always wish for the best when they bring out the latest new goodies that we can spend our cash on! :)
 
One of the biggest reason for Sata connection is space. Try hooking up four or five hard drives using the old hook up...tou will end up with a huge birds nest. Also Sata moves data faster using less power.
 
I love the SATA drives. Never had any problems with the SATA cables either. And they sure beat the IDE stuff all to H IMHO.

Lefty, I'd say get a full tower so you have the room you need. It's well worth losing a little space in the computer den. Or make the den a wee tad bigger somehow.
 
'Make the den a wee bit bigger'

The pics might just give you an inkling of the impossibility of that !

I appreciate your help, and will take on board all that you men have said, and certainly will tidy things up a bit - until the next rebuild, that is.

I still think SATA connectors are crap - wobbly insecure things - you guys don't, but then again you have been living with those Mickeymouse 110 volt flat-pins for years !
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top