Maryadi's MV22B Osprey Rel2.0 released

[rcbarend]

Hi again,

In the hover I seem to have lots of roll authority (I take it due to the lateral thrust layout), reasonable fore-aft but very little yaw pedal, with one-two degrees per sec. Makes maneuvering in the hover quite exciting sometimes!

Tried adjusting the flight dynamics in the normal manner, but I assume these are within the VSTOL gauge?

Any way for me to increase the yaw response please?

Many thanks

Andy

Yes, there is. Just a programmed parameter in the VSTOL gauge.
I've measured it, and at present it's exactly 2 degrees/sec at full rudder deflection.

If you have a better real-world value, (like 4-6 degrees/sec or so??) I'l gladly change it.
Note though that the MV22B is NOT a smalll helicopter ....

Rob

 

[rcbarend]

I have a similar problem: the MV-22 tends to roll to starboard even with no wind and stick calibrated. That too makes the hover hard to control. This happened in Rel1 too. Maybe it’s my system? ​

Not with me.

But to make sure this isn't perception:
1. Make sure the left/right tanks contain an equal amount of fuel.

If still the same problem:
2. In the panel.cfg, disable the gauge:
gauge03=rcb-gauges!VSTOL_Jitter, 0,0
This removes all "random" turbulance and groundeffect.

If still the same:
3. In menu Options-Controls, set the Nullzone of the Ailerons axis to Max., so you are sure that with a centered stick there is no Aileron axis input.
Also, make sure that there is no other controller axis is assigned to Ailerons.

Does any of this solve the problem; and if so: what ?
On my system, the Osprey hovers on the spot for more then a minute (if 1. and 2. is applied, speed and pitch 0, centered stick, and no wind)

Rob

 

[PhantomTweak]

Just my 2 bits on the roll "thing": It doesn't do it to me at all. I can make it hover relatively well (for me, anyway )
I can even hover over a fixed point on the ground for a few seconds. Without any adjustments or changes.
My joystick settings are jut a touch left of full on the Sensitivity, just a touch right of full left on the Null zones.

I haven't tried the inverted stuff yet, although I'd wager that it's one of those "prohibited maneuvers", especially low, slow, and nacelles up. Barrel roll, maybe, as long as you have positive G all the way round, like Bob Hoover's famous Iced Tea pouring video. I sincerely doubt it has anything resembling the inverted flight tanks most fighters have, though. Probably not stressed for it, either. It aint no fighter, folks

Have fun! I sure is
Pat☺

 

[freded]

Not with me.

But to make sure this isn't perception:
1. Make sure the left/right tanks contain an equal amount of fuel.

If still the same problem:
2. In the panel.cfg, disable the gauge:
gauge03=rcb-gauges!VSTOL_Jitter, 0,0
This removes all "random" turbulance and groundeffect.

If still the same:
3. In menu Options-Controls, set the Nullzone of the Ailerons axis to Max., so you are sure that with a centered stick there is no Aileron axis input.
Also, make sure that there is no other controller axis is assigned to Ailerons.

Does any of this solve the problem; and if so: what ?
On my system, the Osprey hovers on the spot for more then a minute (if 1. and 2. is applied, speed and pitch 0, centered stick, and no wind)

Rob

Thanks Rob, I'll try that shortly. Just got home from hospital after cataract surgery so don't feel like doing much right at the moment!
Maybe tomorrow I'll go through your suggestions.

 

[andy277uk]

Thanks Rob, glad I'm not hunting another issue down.

I've had a look at a display on youtube where the yaw rate was in the order of 30 degree per second. I can see at that rate with the roll sensitivity I'd come to grief quite quickly!

It's quite a fascinating vehicle to watch maneuver, a much more agile aircraft than you would think.

Many thanks

Andy

 

[rcbarend]

Thanks Rob, glad I'm not hunting another issue down.

I've had a look at a display on youtube where the yaw rate was in the order of 30 degree per second. I can see at that rate with the roll sensitivity I'd come to grief quite quickly!

It's quite a fascinating vehicle to watch maneuver, a much more agile aircraft than you would think.

Many thanks

Andy

Hi Andy,

Do you have a link to that video ??

Cheers, Rob

*edit* I was wrong. Can't do the math anymore ..(age ..LoL)
On my system it isn't 2 degrees / sec but 12 degrees/sec (30 sec for a full 360 circle). So about half of what you observed.
Which could very well be possible.

But if you observe only 1-2 degrees/sec on your PC: are you sure your rudder (pedals) work OK c.q. are well-calibrated ??
If you PM me your EMail address, I can send you a small test gauge that measures the exact % of rudder input..

 

[PhantomTweak]

Thanks Rob, I'll try that shortly. Just got home from hospital after cataract surgery so don't feel like doing much right at the moment!
Maybe tomorrow I'll go through your suggestions.

Glad you're home and doing...relatively well, let's say.
Don't feel too bad. I lost my left eye back in 1992. Just be VERY careful.
If the eye you got surgery on is covered for now, remember some things. You have no depth perception now. Watch out for walking into corners you're trying to go around, you'll have real fun picking things up (you'll miss a lot ), and there's no catching things thrown to you. Trust me on these.
Driving, if you do, will be dangerous now. Practice getting close to other cars, limit lines, stop lites, or things like that, in a relatively empty parking lot. Slowly. Going around corners, too. You WILL jump curbs, Makes my wife nuts when I do that. With practice, you'll be just as good as you ever were.

Good luck to ya! Surgery is never fun, and the older, the worser. Get better soonest!
Just so you know, a damp cloth, as warm as you can stand it, really helps the pain in the eye. First couple weeks, I practically lived with a warn, damp, cloth held up on my eye.
Fun times.
Pat☺

Andy,
Check that your yaw damper is NOT engaged. Ctrl+D is the key combo to toggle it. If your yaw rate is slow, try toggling it and see if it makes any difference.
Just a thought...
Pat☺

 

[MrZippy]

Where the Gremmies and the Hodads never go

OK, Zippy is done with the inverted flight tests. She passes with flying colors...colours....crullers. I think the last one is a doughnut

 

[rcbarend]

OK, Zippy is done with the inverted flight tests. She passes with flying colors...colours....crullers. I think the last one is a doughnut

That is what I mean; makes no sence ..LoL
Should be falling out of the sky like a brick ....

 

[Josh Patterson]

That is what I mean; makes no sence ..LoL
Should be falling out of the sky like a brick ....

Naw, the extremely skilled pilot obviously pulled reverse pitch on the props/rotors just to show ol' Shawn D how aerobatics are REALLY performed!!

 

[strykerpsg]

That is what I mean; makes no sence ..LoL
Should be falling out of the sky like a brick ....

Not certain if you are being sarcastic, but current generation helicopters are very much able to do loops/donuts for about last 20 years or so. Sustained inverted flight? Your comment would make sense.

 

[rcbarend]

Not certain if you are being sarcastic, but current generation helicopters are very much able to do loops/donuts for about last 20 years or so. Sustained inverted flight? Your comment would make sense.

No, not being sarcastic at all .....
And Yes, I was referring to sustained inverted flight in VTOL configuration.

In my current implementation I forgot to model that, so now it IS possible to fly inverted in VTOL continuously. Which makes no sense ..
Just a shortcomming of my current VTOL implementation (for this Osprey) .

Rob

 

[strykerpsg]

No, not being sarcastic at all .....
And Yes, I was referring to sustained inverted flight in VTOL configuration.

In my current implementation I forgot to model that, so now it IS possible to fly inverted in VTOL continuously. Which makes no sense ..
Just a shortcomming of my current VTOL implementation (for this Osprey) .

Rob

LOL! Thanks. I assumed you meant sustained, but some people just don't realize some of the advances. Looking forward to your tweaking. Admittedly, since I have not finished tweaking my HOTAS setup, I have not tried this beauty. However, with upcoming extended leave of absence, I suspect I will very get to enjoy the labor of your FDE and Maryadi's labor of love.

 

[rcbarend]

LOL! Thanks. I assumed you meant sustained, but some people just don't realize some of the advances. Looking forward to your tweaking. Admittedly, since I have not finished tweaking my HOTAS setup, I have not tried this beauty. However, with upcoming extended leave of absence, I suspect I will very get to enjoy the labor of your FDE and Maryadi's labor of love.

Not sure if/when I'm going to model this (exceptional) flight behaviour, because it's rather complex to model with some form of realisme.
Apart from the fact that I don't even know what "realisme" is, when trying inverted flight in VTOL config in a real Tiltrotor aircraft ...LoL

Reason: in my gauge calculations and "overwriting" the FDE, I can only command lon/lat/vert. speed relative to the aircraft axis, not earth axis.
So these should be dependant on current pitch and bank attitude.
This is modelled now, but not for inverted flight.

Cheers, Rob

 

[freded]

Glad you're home and doing...relatively well, let's say.
Don't feel too bad. I lost my left eye back in 1992. Just be VERY careful.
If the eye you got surgery on is covered for now, remember some things. You have no depth perception now. Watch out for walking into corners you're trying to go around, you'll have real fun picking things up (you'll miss a lot ), and there's no catching things thrown to you. Trust me on these.
Driving, if you do, will be dangerous now. Practice getting close to other cars, limit lines, stop lites, or things like that, in a relatively empty parking lot. Slowly. Going around corners, too. You WILL jump curbs, Makes my wife nuts when I do that. With practice, you'll be just as good as you ever were.

Good luck to ya! Surgery is never fun, and the older, the worser. Get better soonest!
Just so you know, a damp cloth, as warm as you can stand it, really helps the pain in the eye. First couple weeks, I practically lived with a warn, damp, cloth held up on my eye.
Fun times.
Pat☺

Andy,
Check that your yaw damper is NOT engaged. Ctrl+D is the key combo to toggle it. If your yaw rate is slow, try toggling it and see if it makes any difference.
Just a thought...
Pat☺

Hi Pat,

Very sorry to hear about your left eye. Was it an accident?

I’m already noticing my lack of depth perception! Being very cautious when walking. But I’m certainly not going to drive till my vision is better.

Thanks for the hot damp cloth tip. I’ll try it if the eye hurts.

Take care!

 

[strykerpsg]

Not sure if/when I'm going to model this (exceptional) flight behaviour, because it's rather complex to model with some form of realisme.
Apart from the fact that I don't even know what "realisme" is, when trying inverted flight in VTOL config in a real Tiltrotor aircraft ...LoL

Reason: in my gauge calculations and "overwriting" the FDE, I can only command lon/lat/vert. speed relative to the aircraft axis, not earth axis.
So these should be dependant on current pitch and bank attitude.
This is modelled now, but not for inverted flight.

Cheers, Rob

We have total faith and confidence you will either figure it out specifically or as close to realistic as is allowable.

 

[PhantomTweak]

Hi Pat,

Very sorry to hear about your left eye. Was it an accident?

Yes. I ran into a horse on my motorcycle in Yuma, a 1978 Yamaha Police Special. Looked just like the bikes on CHiPS, back when. Wild horses run free there. This particular (black) horse ran free, right out in front of my bike, at 60 MPH. It was just before dawn, the Monday before Thanksgiving, and I was heading out to work. Hour drive each way, each day, 12 hour shift. Nice, huh? I don't remember much after he turned the white blaze on his face toword me, until a couple guys found me, walking in circles picking up pieces of the bike. Piecing it together afterwards, they figure he reared at the last second, rode the forks and front fairing up, and scraped me off the bike. If not, I would have hit him square on, probably killing me. We went bouncing down the highway. I figure my head ricocheted off the highway centerline a few (dozen) times. Big yellow stripe down the side of my helmet. I still have it as a memento. Anyway, it knocked my retina loose, and cataracted the lens over. Took about a week to fully take effect.
They tried to stick the retina back up with what then was a new device, the scleral buckle it's called. A ziptie for the retina, essentially, that holds it to the inner surface. Laser tacked it in place as well. They pulled the lens out too. Too badly damaged. The morning after the operation, though, the retina tore loose, and now looks, the doctor told me, like a wad of paper in the bottom. I was stoned out of my mind on pain meds during the exam, and threw up down the female intern's blouse. Really nice cleavidge, iirc. So, the ball is still there, physically, but no retina, or lens. Apparently they nicked the nerve to the pupil, as well, and it no longer closes. Stuck as wide open as it gets.

By the way, the horse died at the scene, after thrashing around in the ditch beside the road for about a half hour. No one could put it down, because of the Az laws. Only BLM could do that, and they were over an hour away. So it layed in the ditch, thrashing around, slowly drowning in it's own blood.
I am the only person I know of, however, that's ever killed a horse with his chest. Marines

Good luck yo you, Mark. Hope you feel better soonest, and the operation works as advertised. Me, I died on the table for about 10 min. Don't remember a thing, though.

Pat☺

Andy,
Any luck, yet, on the yaw thing?
Pat☺

We have total faith and confidence you will either figure it out specifically or as close to realistic as is allowable.[/QUOTE]

Yes Rob!
You make things with the very greatest level of realisme
Pat☺

 

[rcbarend]

Andy,
Any luck, yet, on the yaw thing?
Pat☺

Just had another user test this on both FSX-SE and P3Dv4; same results as me on FSX-Accel.
So appr. 30 sec for a full 360 turn with full rudder.

​

We have total faith and confidence you will either figure it out specifically or as close to realistic as is allowable.[/QUOTE]

Yes Rob!
You make things with the very greatest level of realisme
Pat☺

Thanks for the appreciation and faith ...LoL

Rob

PS: Nested Quotes doesn't appear to work on this forum

 

[andy277uk]

Hi again,

Still no luck, the pedal animations seem to be doing strange things when full left yaw is put in. It kicks back when to about half depression after reaching full.

Regardless of the animation, the performance in either direction remains the same.

I did a static turn to port and starboard and it's 20 seconds through 90 degrees so a little faster than I thought, but still nowhere near what you are seeing.

Here is the link to the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujTr7ZOLdrU

He does a yaw turn at 4:25, but it's a fascinating aircraft to watch fly so enjoy the full video!

Put the rudder through FSUIPC as raw and still no change. Only Osprey seems afflicted.

Thank you so much for spending the time looking at this, much appreciated.

I'll PM you my e-mail for that gauge you mentioned.

Best regards

Andy

 

[rcbarend]

Hi again,

Still no luck, the pedal animations seem to be doing strange things when full left yaw is put in. It kicks back when to about half depression after reaching full.

Regardless of the animation, the performance in either direction remains the same.

I did a static turn to port and starboard and it's 20 seconds through 90 degrees so a little faster than I thought, but still nowhere near what you are seeing.

Here is the link to the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujTr7ZOLdrU

He does a yaw turn at 4:25, but it's a fascinating aircraft to watch fly so enjoy the full video!

Put the rudder through FSUIPC as raw and still no change. Only Osprey seems afflicted.

Thank you so much for spending the time looking at this, much appreciated.

I'll PM you my e-mail for that gauge you mentioned.

Best regards

Andy

Hi Andy,

Got your PM... I will mail you a test gauge soon, with instructions how to add it.
As to the rudder animation in the VC: yes, looks a bit odd ... but is known and can be explained. But has nothing to do with your problem.

As to the video: Yes, great to see.
And the yaw rate looks a bit faster then what I implemented, but the perspective is also changing (camera zooms in, and the V22 has some forward speed).
So it's hard to tell exactly.

Rob