FS2004 FRANCE-VFR / BRETAGNE-VFR

[michaelvader]

Does some one have from FRANCE-VFR the FS2004 version of BRETAGNE-VFR?
I got a copy from a friend. But it does not to be complete.
Knowing well Southern Brittany by sailing there a lot of years some details look not to be right, especially when I look to the islands of Belle Ile and Groix.
The meshs does not to match reality.
Also I have te problem of buildings, and complete villages to apear for a microsecond as white cubes than disapear for ever.
So I presume that some mesh and some textures are missing.
I tried different settings of my FS2004, But on my pc as on the pc of two friends the problems are the same.
I wrote to the editor FRANCE-VFR. His Answer was that the original FS2004 BRETAGNE-VFR is no longer avaible at his store and I should search to find the scenery at revendors on the net.
What I did with out any success
In general the scenery is quiet nice but without the buildings, towns and villages it is a bit "dead" and disapointing.

Best regards

Michael from Brittany

 

[wolfebee89]

@michaelvader you can always post your request in the FS2020/2024 forums both here at SOH and at avsim if not also at pilote-virtuel, as simmers therein who have potentially moved on entirely from FS2004/FSX may be more than willing to sell you their legitimately licensed copy / transfer their license

said request is nigh futile in the FS2004 forums because most who have purchased FranceVFR's BretagneVFR for FS2004 would prefer to hold on to theirs and would certainly not be too keen on parting with the same!

cheers!

 

[leuen]

And those who invested a lot of efforts, time and struggles should share for free their creations almost without any appreciations and thanks! A curious sim world.

Bernard

 

[wolfebee89]

And those who invested a lot of efforts, time and struggles should share for free their creations almost without any appreciations and thanks! A curious sim world.

Bernard

indeed but copyrights, especially payware must be respected and abided by, and especially in the context of FranceVFR's efforts who have set standards and benchmarks for Photographic VFR scenery nigh decades ago that until FS2020/2024, very few could meet, payware or freeware.

https://www.ouest-france.fr/bretagne/vue-den-haut-une-bretagne-virtuelle-tres-reelle-570393

Moreover, understand that the FranceVFR photo scenery standards with full autogen have always commanded a premium that is required to be paid to indulge in said scenery visual 'feast', and for which r/l sacrifices perhaps may have to be made to save up for the requisite purchase

@michaelvader feel free to also post at the FranceVFR forums https://www.vfrnetwork.com/forums/ --> perhaps a former FS2004 sim enthusiast maybe able to sell or 'gift' you their licensed copy

appreciate the understanding!

IIRC the only freeware by FranceVFR that I am aware of is the one released in conjunction with Gregory Putz https://library.avsim.net/extsearch...uthor]=France+VFR&extended_search[category]=0

cheers!

 

[wolfebee89]

Knowing well Southern Brittany by sailing there a lot of years some details look not to be right, especially when I look to the islands of Belle Ile and Groix.
The meshs does not to match reality.

specifically addressing that, if not already resolved, perhaps keep a look out for this https://www.momox-shop.fr/profisoft...tanny-islands-computerspiel-M0B0002EHDRW.html if not also, consider requesting Laurent Dupouey for the same, as it is rather antiquated even by FranceVFR Bretagne VFR standards, and he may yet oblige...

 

[michaelvader]

Hi Wolfebee,
looking at the website you did indicate me it says on the site that this soft is no longer avaible.
But Nevertheless I got from some one a copy that I searched. I was very touched by that as I never thought that.
Now I enjoy to fly over "my homeland Brittany" with one of Nigel Richards Avros A real pleasure

Kenavo

Michael

 

[scotty]

But Nevertheless I got from some one a copy that I searched.

Why pay for something that others have paid for—for good reason?
Besides, it’s not legal—though, what does copyright even mean, anyway?
Indeed, a curious sim world.

 

[lucb]

Why pay for something that others have paid for—for good reason?
Besides, it’s not legal—though, what does copyright even mean, anyway?
Indeed, a curious sim world.

I can imagine a lot of good reasons like FS9 no more supported by Microsoft and any add on builders or because FS9 is a good way to have a quiet good way to have a good flight simulator running on cheap pc for people having few money or not wanted to spend lot of money on that
You’re right: it’s not legal. BUT at the same time it’s not even logical to still have to respect that licensing for product no more sold or supported. That’s why some have put their products on freeware.
I agree with you and others that we should point out what is legal, but please stop making value judgements about people’s motives, especially when it comes to products this old.
Finally I have no problem about people having for free things that I have bought 20 years ago.

 

[Airbasil]

• BUT at the same time it’s not even logical to still have to respect that licensing for product no more sold or supported. That’s why some have put their products on freeware.
• I agree with you and others that we should point out what is legal, but please stop making value judgements about people’s motives, especially when it comes to products this old.
• Finally I have no problem about people having for free things that I have bought 20 years ago.

Absolutely agree with all of these three points. Specially with the second point..

Thanks for pointing them out..

In the End: FS9 is yet 22 Years old and no more supported by Microsoft and / or most people and developers anyways.. and so unfortunately, its community is declining year by year..

And nope, people won't push us who remain, sticking with FS9 to move on and buy all these products again which we once bought for a lot of money back then (22 Years ago...) just to have a nice P3D or FS2020 or 24 today....

So let us (who've meanwhile become a small family) just enjoy our FS9 without questioning and or being rude and jealous of / to each others!

Quite Honestly: In our small but remaining community, and in this modern day and age, we shall rather considder "sharing as caring"... (better than fighting each others over legal policies and what not!)

So no better behavior over there neither… - That’s quite questionable as well… to be honest! Buuut… So what???

so: STFU and let’s just not get into these discussions anymore… allright?

 

[scotty]

Btw. Scotty:
On the Link removed by admin there’s a Removed by admin called: “Project Share Space" as well, where for example converted payware is being shared for free as well… (and as i know, from pictures you’ve posted on the screenshots thread in here, you are one of the users of these converted paywares) - so no better behavior over there neither…

You won’t see me stoop to your level.
I could say a lot about your level, but since—as I’ve already mentioned—I have no intention of descending to it, that’s it for me.

 

[leuen]

We should be more than luckly, that things just still work. And we still pay a lot for accounts, memberships and storage facilities in order to keep the old lady running. What about time and effort spent by many people during all those years, without getting the smallest financial contribution? And the hardest, often without any appreciations, thanks or encouragement. As if everything were a matter of course and free of charge. Those people share their creations because of their enthusiasm and as a well minded contribution to the community. Haven't they brought enough here and at other sites like what f.i. Michael did for you? And what about addons bought on Ebay? Will the paid money go back to Aerosoft or other distributors? It may be poor advice in an aviation context, but let’s keep our feet on the ground.

Bernard

 

[Airbasil]

You won’t see me stoop to your level.
I could say a lot about your level, but since—as I’ve already mentioned—I have no intention of descending to it, that’s it for me.

Sounds like a personal Problem to me… - you might better consider consulting a psychiatrist to help you on that topic!

Good Luck!

We should be more than luckly, that things just still work.

But let’s keep our feet on the ground.

Indeed…

 

[Priller]

Gentlemen,

Let's keep it civil, shall we? @Airbasil you got a warning.

Also, we do not take kindly to any form of piracy or incitement to piracy. If I see this kind of behaviour again, actions will be swift and final.

Priller

 

[michaelvader]

Hallo to all of you,

at first I want to bring to you a word from france: "To put a bit water into the wine"
I think it is understandable what I mean
And just a question to our law expert: If some one buys (means he paid for it) a software with the intention to make it a present (or gift) to a friend, is that also piracy?
Is it the sence of the forum here to a take over the role of a advocate of law to denounce other persons?
Is pragmatisme a forgotten word?
What is clear, is that the site here must protect itself against illegal actions of it members!
I agree with that the adminstrators to have a look on what is going on and have a correcting hand when things seem to derivate in to dangerous waters.
But must this be done with a "woodhammer"?
What about this sentence: "Let Being Helpful De More Important Than Being Right!"
And also is that the right way to point his finger to others?

So that is just my opinion, throotle back, reduce speed, lower the landing gear, set the flaps and land softly..

There are enough trouble outside in the world, I do not feel the need to bring this trouble into here by pointing to others.

I hope I had offended no one, it is not my intention. Sim Outhouse is kind of home for me and it makes me a bit sad to see what happens.

Best regards

Michael

​

 

[leuen]

Michael, an other forgotten word: "community".

Bernard

 

[michaelvader]

Hi Bernard,
yes I agree completely to you
Also I believe that if the Adminstrators does not agree with some one and have to blame or punish some one, it is not a very good way to make it public.
I have plenty of respect for all the work our adminstrators do to keep this site a life and to prevent when things "goes out the rudder" It is a hard work they do!
But as we say in german "the sound makes the music" this way of public woodhammer hmmmmmm
There would have been another way to keep the waves down.
I know, myself to be impulsive some times (and sometimes too much I admit).
Please just put a bit oil on the waves, not into the fire. It burns enough outside of oure Flightsim world

Keep on smiling

Kenavo

Michael

 

[michaelvader]

As I asked before:
And just a question to our law expert:
If some one buys (means he paid for it)and aquire by this legal way a software with the intention to make it a present (or gift) to a friend, is that also piracy? or incitement of piracy?

Best regards

Michael

 

[AndyG43]

As I asked before:
And just a question to our law expert:
If some one buys (means he paid for it)and aquire by this legal way a software with the intention to make it a present (or gift) to a friend, is that also piracy? or incitement of piracy?

Best regards

Michael

I'm no law expert but as they've transferred ownership/the contract to another party (unless they also keep a copy for themselves) logically it seems fine.

 

[rohan]

... anf not forgetting whatever the original publisher posted about copyright and distribution (and indeed re-distribution) ...

 

[huub vink]

I will answer Michael's question and close this thread afterwards. It seems everybody has an opinion but these seem not to be based on legislation or other binding documents. I'm not a lawyer, but in real life I have been a safety engineer for many years and in this role I often had to access legal consequences, and define who was responsable and who wasn't. In this role I at least learned how to read and therefore I also like to think I do have some experience on similar topics.

First of all the Sim-Outhouse, doesn't have a responsability in this. Look at it as two persons make an illegal deal, while having a diner in a restaurant. The fact the deal was made inside his restaurant, doesn't make the restaurant owner part of this illegal deal. Unless he activitely facilitated this. So moderators or administrators don't have a role in this. Apart from offering a place to meet, the Sim-Outhouse didn't play any active role. So it is complete nonsense to refer to the administrators now.

The scenery discussed is software and not a tangible product. So you don't buy a physical product, but in nearly all cases you just buy a licence to use the software and this licence is in most cases personal. What you are allowed to do with the software and whether you can share this software is described in the so-called EULA. An EULA (End-User License Agreement) is a legally binding contract between a software provider and the end user of a program. So by purchasing the software (scenery) the buyer agreed with the terms.
And therefore the answer whether it is allowed to share the software, or whether it is allowed to hand it over when not langer used by the buyer can be found in the EULA. I expect you can all read, so I don't think it is necessary for me to dig up the EULA from France-VFR.

Whether it is piracy or theft is something completely different. Based on what I expect is in the EULA, is transfering ownership not allowed. And therefore this action is illegal as it is violating the EULA. As every single EULA is not covered by national law. (The EULA is a legal agreement between provider and user of the software). A violation of the EULA will/can end in a civil law case, between the (two) parties involved, as the state/country were not part of the EULA.

But definition of piracy and theft are in national legislation. In most countries there are various levels of theft, all with their specifically particulars and indicated punishment. This legislation is local, and for instance in the US you have Federal laws, but the states can deviate from these federal laws onder certain conditions. It is even worse in my part of the world, as in Europe every country had its own legislation for centuries and now we are in a painful process to extract the similarities and to convert them in European laws, and again all member-countries claim the the right to maintain their own system. So I honestly can't say what this is called in France, but like in most countries, theft as defined in law and a violation to the legal agreement EULA are two different things.

What we feel as honest or consider acceptable has nothing to do with the legal aspects. What makes something legal or illegal is compliance with what has been written prior to the event.

So was the transfer illegal? YES, most likely, but this must be checked in the EULA.
Has the Sim-Outhouse a responsibility in this? Not really as the transfer was made between two persons and the Sim-Ouhouse was not involded.

Do I as administrator of the Sim-Outhouse have an opinion? YES! It doesn't take too much brain to understand what has been done is illegal or at least at the edge. Please keep you potentially illegal actions away from this forum. It makes you look bad and as it is a "smelly action" I prefer to keep the bad small away from this forum.

So next time, don't bring this type of transactions to this forum. Or I will be forced to take some not so popular actions, just to keep the air clean.

I hope this is very clear and stops all discussions on this topic.

Huub