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SBuilder Question for any scenery Guru!

falcon409

falcon409

Moderator
Staff member
When constructing a flatten polygon in SBuilder, what dictates the elevation setting for the flatten area? Is it the msl setting as shown by the aircraft as it sits on the ground, is it set to "0" to make it relative to the terrain or something in between? I am try to build a simple bush strip in Alaska and despite my best efforts I either get a rwy that's sunk about 60ft into the ground or a rwy that looks perfect but in which the airplane sits on the ground 60ft underground.

Very frustrating!:banghead:
 
I dont know much about the program, but i'd go with the Alt in the Afcad,
A mistake i make sometimes is i'll set the alt in the Afcad properties, and then forget to make sure the runway ive created is the same alt :banghead:
cheers ian
 
Thanks Ian for the response. I'm at a loss as to how to correct this. I've been into the Scenery Design Forum and virtually everything is discussed there save "flattens". It's as though they are so simple that no one has a need to discuss them, yet I have read others who have posted info on a specific project they're working on and have all but given up on flatten polygons because they are so frustrating. It seems to be a topic few know about, even fewer understand and only a handful of the very best designers even know how to control.

I can tell you though that despite what anyone will tell you, flattens are not easy to do. . .the idea is simple enough, draw a polygon around a rwy to flatten the area so that it sits correctly on the terrain. . .the application of that overly simplified statement is another matter entirely and based on the number of views vs the number of replies, it seems no one here knows anything either.
 
Not being home I can't check my personal efforts, but from memory, I go to the airport with wx set to "clear" so pressure will be Std. and check the elevation using a C172 or the Cub and use that to build the flatten... then check it..it may have to be lowered a few (3-5) feet to compensate for the way FS measures 'altitude' which I've been told is at the a/c reference, not the wheels.
Rwy elevation can be used but either way to may have to adjust. Also, if you have addon mesh installed the terrain may not match with the FS airport data so you have to adjust again. It can be tricky in mountainous terrain to not create a hole or a floater, but M$ had their issues in the original too (the Great Missouri Canyon is an example where the airport floats over a giant hole.

As far as I can remember, all elevations are in MSL
 
I've always used the alt reading of the default C172 as three feet above the surface upon which it rests. It's always worked fine for me.
 
magoo said:
I've always used the alt reading of the default C172 as three feet above the surface upon which it rests. It's always worked fine for me.
Click to expand...
I would have assumed that all I needed to do was to find the surface altitude in the area I was building an airport, then simply make the rwy altitude and the flatten altitude the same and it would work, but it doesn't. In this case when I set the rwy alt and the flatten alt to 68ft I saw the rwy in the area it was supposed to be, but when I allowed the airplane to settle onto the rwy in slew mode it continued through the rwy and dropped to sea level or '0' alt.:banghead: The flatten did it's job in that the rwy was now visible because that area had a hilly surface and the rwy was obscured if I just set it there without the flatten. . .it's like the flatten was hollow, if that makes any sense. . .it did flatten the surface area, but it didn't provide a hard surface for the rwy to sit on.
 
It seems very odd that your Ac should settle at 0 Alt, it should settle on the stock FS land at what ever alt that is, even in slew mode, did you make up an Afcad first or have you just made a runway and flatten with Sbuilder?
cheers ian
 
ian elliot said:
It seems very odd that your Ac should settle at 0 Alt, it should settle on the stock FS land at what ever alt that is, even in slew mode, did you make up an Afcad first or have you just made a runway and flatten with Sbuilder?
cheers ian
Click to expand...
Rwy was done in AFX and the flatten in SBuilder. Also, this isn't stock scenery, this is Holgers Glacier Bay V2
 
PHP: 
Rwy was done in AFX and the flatten in SBuilder. Also, this isn't stock scenery, this is Holgers Glacier Bay V2

In that case, im wondering if Glacier Bay V2 has its own exclude's and flatten's that are causing a conflict with you'rs.
Trying to place your own add-on scenery over someone else's add-on scenery can be tricky
cheers ian
 
ian elliot said:
PHP: 
Rwy was done in AFX and the flatten in SBuilder. Also, this isn't stock scenery, this is Holgers Glacier Bay V2
In that case, im wondering if Glacier Bay V2 has its own exclude's and flatten's that are causing a conflict with you'rs.
Trying to place your own add-on scenery over someone else's add-on scenery can be tricky
cheers ian
Click to expand...
Don't think any flattens would be in this area Ian, this isn't a replacement airport, I'm building one in the wilderness from scratch so I wouldn't think there would be an existing flatten.
 
Due to the fact that you hit zero feet, is the area water/sea in the default scenery?

Also the sim reads the altitude of the lowest ranked AFCAD for an airport, which can cause some odd side effects, like AI floating several feet above the ground, and even taxiing mid-air. It can be fixed by moving a dummy AFCAD below the stock scenery with the desired alt. I know it's not an afcad or such, but maybe meshes/LWM behave in a similar matter?

just thinking out-loud, you could try placing your flatten file temporarily in a lower scenery layer to see if it helps? Or create a dummy scenery folder and move it right down the list, if it doesn't help, easily undone.
Jamie
 
JDTinballs said:
Due to the fact that you hit zero feet, is the area water/sea in the default scenery?
Click to expand...
Hmmmmm, yep, water is just off the end of the rwy.

JDTinballs said:
Also the sim reads the altitude of the lowest ranked AFCAD for an airport, which can cause some odd side effects, like AI floating several feet above the ground, and even taxiing mid-air. It can be fixed by moving a dummy AFCAD below the stock scenery with the desired alt. I know it's not an afcad or such, but maybe meshes/LWM behave in a similar matter?

just thinking out-loud, you could try placing your flatten file temporarily in a lower scenery layer to see if it helps? Or create a dummy scenery folder and move it right down the list, if it doesn't help, easily undone.
Jamie
Click to expand...
The airport I'm working on isn't listed in the scenery library, I just dumped it and the flatten bgl into the Addon Scenery/scenery folder
so it doesn't have a layer to move. . . . .hmmmm
 
Falcon, try making seperate scenery folders for the flatten and the scenery. In the flatten folder, have just the flatten. Then put all the scenery in the other folder. Add the flatten to the scenery library first, then the scenery folder. That way the flatten is below the scenery in the library, which will cause the flatten to draw first. Sometimes having the flatten in with the scenery can cause problems. Just a thought.
 
Ok, got it. . . .a group effort to be sure (thanks to everyone for the assist), but what probably fixed it was a combination of things to include:
Placing the scenery into it's own folder and loading it into the scenery library
Setting both the flatten polygon and the rwy elevation to the exact same meter setting and finally (I missed this originally)
in the airport general properties box. . .setting the airport elevation to the same as the other two, lol. . .it was set at "0". Geeeeze!!:banghead:
 
Don't think for a minute it was all for nothing.

I learned a lot from this and it is something that I have been planning on messing with for awhile.

Thanks guys
 
Dangerousdave26 said:
Don't think for a minute it was all for nothing.
I learned a lot from this and it is something that I have been planning on messing with for awhile.
Thanks guys
Click to expand...
Yep, there's always something that you're missing when a problem like this occurs and it's usually something simple, as in this case. Once I filled out the airport properties to begin the project I never paid any more attention to that box. I kept messing with the AFCAD elevation, but never the Airport elevation, lol. Go figure, lol.
 
So it was user error that was the root of your problem and not SBuilder? "Go figure, lol"

Of course you won't see my reply at the SBuilder forum and that's a good thing. But your parting shots demeaned the product, the site and the developer. It wasn't until I put your username together with this site that things became crystal clear. The SBuilder forums are a niche location, frequented on an irregular basis by a few supporters of the developer, Luis Sa. Within the developer community Luis has earned a lot of respect for his contributions. I wouldn't expect you to understand.

But your unjustified comments will linger and the stench from them will stain a good man's efforts. Again, I wouldn't expect you to understand.
 
If you have a beef that started on another website, please leave it there and don't bring it over here.

'Nuff said.

Willy
 
Well, well, Meshman. Get over it.
My statement did not demean the product nor the the developer, I simply found the support lacking and said so.

I stated that I appreciated the effort in developing the software and that I would continue to use it for producing flattens.

So let's turn the drama factor way down here.. . .the stench will stain a good man's efforts? Please. . .unjustified comments. . .if criticism isn't permitted then someone's in the wrong business.
 
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