Alphasim Forums Still Down ..

[expat]

I at least have been getting en Error - 404 message all week. Anyone else know what's going on over there?

 

[michael davies]

I at least have been getting en Error - 404 message all week. Anyone else know what's going on over there?

There is a server technical hosting problem, I was told three options were possible, no more forums, forums back but severely curtailed ( ie customer issues only ) or normal service resumed. Other than that I know no more.

I do know there are more models soon to be released so it will be interesting to see how they impart that message as and when they arrive, my gut is they will rely on the main shop news page.

Personally, the technical issue has been too long IMHO, they don't seem to be in a rush to sort, or move the site, my initial thoughts were toward a cut back forum, but the no forum option seems to be winning the polls right now, they are an overhead, they do generate a lot of workload in policing etc, maybe their trying a period with out them to see if it helps work flow ?.

Until Alphasim officially say whats going on then we'll all have to keep guessing, that in its self is probably more damaging than any bad news they could give IMHO.

Best

Michael

 

[Mickey D]

but the no forum option seems to be winning the polls right now

I tend to go along with that theory Michael. It's no secret that Phil did not like the forums. They gave people a platform on which to air opinions and grievances. That conflicted with AS being a 'benign autocracy'. Not my words.
Problem is all those opinions and grievances will now be aired elsewhere (as they were before anyway).

The crash seems to have occurred on quite a few forums almost at the same time. All those others are back up again AFAIK but with loss of their databases.

 

[michael davies]

I tend to go along with that theory Michael. It's no secret that Phil did not like the forums. They gave people a platform on which to air opinions and grievances. That conflicted with AS being a 'benign autocracy'. Not my words.
Problem is all those opinions and grievances will now be aired elsewhere (as they were before anyway).

The crash seems to have occurred on quite a few forums almost at the same time. All those others are back up again AFAIK but with loss of their databases.

Agreed, lets be clear, Alphasim didn't pull down their forums, they were pulled down elsewhere, having said that it might have just been the shove they needed to close them, psychologically its easier to accept a closure through no fault of your own, rather than a deliberate closure by your own hand.

I've always been a firm advocate that people will have their say, good or bad and that it is far better to have have that say in your own forum where you can police it and control it, maintain an open dialogue and hopefully resolve it, you cant do that in other peoples forums, we used to in the old days, here, Netwings and CBFS and it just ends up upsetting the clientèle in those forums, those were not happy days, hence the opening of the Alphasim forums. Seems the wheel turns full circle, good luck to them trying to resolve issues in other peoples forums, I suspect these days they'll get short shrift trying to do payware business in other freeware forums.

Despite what they think at headquarters, Alphasim needs at least one forum, painful or ugly as it can get, it is required, unless of course they're going all boxed in which case I suspect customer care will be handled by the publisher, I still think thats a viable option they might explore.

Best

Michael

 

[ibl19108]

That begs the question as to what AS will do with their technical support forum. As all three forums Tech Support, screenies and upcoming projects and the usual chatroom. So nothing?

Derek

 

[michael davies]

That begs the question as to what AS will do with their technical support forum. As all three forums Tech Support, screenies and upcoming projects and the usual chatroom. So nothing?

Derek

That, I am afraid to say is a very viable action, no more forums, tech support would be handled by the boxed CD vendors, Alphasim supply Flight1 and absolve all public relations elsewhere, in esscence Alphasim become contractors to Flight1.

From a business sense it certainly has appeal, it allows you to focus on doing the one thing that makes money, modeling, no overheads, no forums to police, no consumer backlash, no ARCs to deal with, just a contact to build X,Y,Z and ship to the publisher. There are down sides of course.

Lets be clear, this is not what 'is' going to happen, it is just speculation from the lack of information, Alphasim are in a state of flux, it will be interesting to see what comes out the other side.

Best

Michael

 

[expat]

Interesting which would be the better business model for them. I am a loyal customer and frequent poster there. From a customer perspective, I would bet that the forum generates much more interest, knowledge, and enthusiasm leading to more sales than it deters potential sales. It certainly has for me. Hard to see the forums actually driving sales to competitors as much of their product is unique.

From a management point of view, I sympathize with Phil and his forum admin's - refereeing the occassional churlishness on the boards is a pain in the neck for them and distracting - but I doubt their bottom line profits really suffer materially from it. The inevitable "fallling out with a modeler who takes his toys elsewhere" can happen with or without a forum and the impact on business is probably the same.

 

[michael davies]

Interesting which would be the better business model for them. I am a loyal customer and frequent poster there. From a customer perspective, I would bet that the forum generates much more interest, knowledge, and enthusiasm leading to more sales than it deters potential sales. It certainly has for me. Hard to see the forums actually driving sales to competitors as much of their product is unique.

From a management point of view, I sympathize with Phil and his forum admin's - refereeing the occassional churlishness on the boards is a pain in the neck for them and distracting - but I doubt their bottom line profits really suffer materially from it. The inevitable "fallling out with a modeler who takes his toys elsewhere" can happen with or without a forum and the impact on business is probably the same.

Hmm I'd like to clear one point up, developers withdrawing their toys has nothing to do with the forums, all the developers who left Alphasim did for other reasons not connected to forums, policing or posts there in, I'm fairly confident I speak honestly for all that I communicate with.

The use of forums is a double edged sword, if used and managed well then they are a bonus to the business, if managed badly then they are a royal pain in the backside. People fall into two camps, those that see the benefits and those that see the overheads, I fall into the former, Phil falls into the latter, it was my pushing eight years ago that brought the forums about, on the proviso that I managed and policed it, Phil would have no part of it, as CEO why should he ?. It worked fine for a good many years, in fact it worked very well. There were a lot of boards and it did take time to keep them in order, but suddenly they were all truncated to just three, no forewarning it was just done and thus I resigned my Alphasim title and the rest as they say is history ( boring at that LOL ).

Forums do hold a focus point for customers, present and prospective, though as I said before, some don't think so, said same people don't think reskins drive up business or a screen shot gallery, sadly this is incorrect, lots of people just screen grab, they take an inordinate amount of time to produce what can only be described as master pieces of pictorial art, it is only natural that they wish to publicly show their efforts.

To be honest, some of them need to be employed by payware vendors to sell their products, quite often these screen shot artists produce images far and above what the vendor produces.

In any other business the PR department would kill for good images of their product to promote their wares, if you think thats a folly then just watch TV for 1Hr and see how many adverts promoting wares are shown, publicity is big business and reaps dividends, often hidden.

Anyway I digress, I've no idea what Alphasim are going to do, I spoke to Phil and the reply was as given above, I think a good summation would be that Alphasim recognise the benefit of some sort of forum but are not comfortable with it, a necessary evil they must endure.

I think thats a fair and honest appraisal.

Best

Michael

 

[Mickey D]

Hmm I'd like to clear one point up, developers withdrawing their toys has nothing to do with the forums, all the developers who left Alphasim did for other reasons not connected to forums, policing or posts there in, I'm fairly confident I speak honestly for all that I communicate with.

As one of the developers who has recently " withdrawn his toys" I'd like make it clear that it had nothing to do with the Forums. Team SDB decided to withdraw our scenery in response to the current Alphasim shift towards boxed products, civil aviation and the proposed reduction of the military side. Scenery in particular.
Added to that AS had recently indicated to Team SDB a further reduction of our catalogue would ensue. With no new military titles being accepted by AS we found the situation of diminishing returns unacceptable and WE took the decision to withdraw our products and seek pastures new.

There was no question of us " throwing the teddy out of the cot" as expat suggests.
I hope this puts the record straight.

 

[tommieboy]

What's the advantage of "boxed" products vs a download?

Tommy

 

[Mickey D]

What's the advantage of "boxed" products vs a download?

Tommy

Mainly a vastly bigger potential market but a smaller return per unit sale.
The downloads market represents less than 25% of the FS community. More punters buy in Walmart and PC World etc. than on the internet.

 

[deathfromafar]

I remember a while back when Phil shut down a large section(s) of the forum and wrote a particularly abrasive rant(which was recorded before it was deleted) in the forum personally aimed at a few people and explaining that he had taken the position that too many of the team members(including him) were spending hours upon hours working the forum and away from building models. Phil originally intended to keep only the screenshots and tech support boards open so team members could spend more time building models and less dealing with the forums. There was backlash from both customers and team members that the move by Phil was "Draconian" as one team member put it. As I understand it from a couple of people involved, a couple of customers advocated the idea of using customer moderators to police the boards and reopen the café. Phil made a point that team members were not obliged to respond or converse on the boards if they should at some point reopen. In the end the customer moderators were put in place and everyone seemed happy with this arrangement but Phil reversed his position and he and other team members spent more hands on time in the forums than before. From my own observation and many other long time Alphasim customers, we all felt and discussed how there was a lot of unwarranted short temperedness coming from the staff and moderators at times. I know there were many boneheads(mostly younger immature types) who came there to stir up as much crap as they could who I had no problem with having them moderated out of the boards. On the other hand, many people who were asking valid questions on technical issues or being curious were getting their heads cut off. Also quite a few who wrote in the forums were not native English speakers who used translators to post there who came off as pesky and irritating at times who in reality were only dealing with a language barrier and this fact often went unrealized leading to some negative exchanges. Be it as it may, in a public forum hosted by a company where customers spend much time, it is wise policy to handle all maters with kid gloves and never a ball pin hammer. The latter will certainly end up having a negative impact on business if left unchecked. I have had cross discussions with many folks who I know whom are long term Alphasim customers as I and we all soundly agree that the forums were going to wrong direction and change was needed.

Some time ago, I suggested that maybe the best way to handle technical issues was to go to a private trouble ticket system and have a no-reply forum space specifically for posting fixes or updates. With other developers who use such a system, I have had 99% satisfaction in getting service on technical issues. Also, I support what Phil originally intended to have a screenshots only forum where people could show off their models in flight and show repaints and modifications. Hopefully there will be a move in the best direction on this and Alphasim and it’s long time and new customers will be able to share a positive space to interact. Whatever happens on the matter, I still look forward with interest in upcoming new models from Alphasim and I admire Phil and his team members both present and past for their skills in this realm of artistry. They have certainly pushed the envelope for Flightsim.

DFA

 

[WarHorse47]

Wow. Thanks for the updates and insight. As a frequent AS customer, I've learned to hold my tongue and keep my opinions to myself less I irritate someone unintentionally. Hope this gets resolved.

--WH

 

[michael davies]

Wow. Thanks for the updates and insight. As a frequent AS customer, I've learned to hold my tongue and keep my opinions to myself less I irritate someone unintentionally. Hope this gets resolved.

--WH

You have no issues from me, be rest assured :ernae:

Best

Michael

 

[deathfromafar]

Michael, I can speak for many of us when I say I am grateful for your candor and patience discussing many matters here and over at Alphasim not to mention all the hard and excellent works you have turned out for the community.

 

[Mickey D]

I think the current message when clicking on 'Forums' speaks volumes.

 

[deathfromafar]

Hmmmm this is interesting:

Multiple Choices

The document name you requested (/forums/index.php) could not be found on this server. However, we found documents with names similar to the one you requested.Available documents:

• /forums/index.html (common basename)

Please consider informing the owner of the referring page about the broken link.

and:

SORRY- The AlphaSim forums are currently offline.
For support please email alphasim1@alphasim.co.uk
​

 

[hinch]

So they have been removed rather than attempting a fix, it's a shame.

The news of a turbo mentor is good though! Maybe this gives AS an oppurtunity to update their site, a previews page would be nice.

 

[S]

It's odd not being able to go to their forums. Wouldn't be fun if they never returned. Reading the info about the Turbom Mentor on the main page just feels cold if you compare it to a thread on the forum where people comment on it.

Fingers crossed here.

 

[Helldiver]

Theres no sense in my covering my problems with Phil.
I just don't understand why he would turn his back to someone that has bought $250 worth of planes without explanation.Without knowing no better, I would say he is a poor businessman.