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OMG It FLOATS!!... ::lol::

thank's for coming through with that info, I was trying to get some sleep but was restless for an answer and was going to start some research. thank's again !
 
srgalahad said:
"Rather than conning from the bridge, the commander passed orders to the wheelhouse through a flexible voice pipe. "
http://www.collectrussia.com/sBoot/bridgetube.jpg

Source here:
http://www.prinzeugen.com/DesignManufacture.htm
http://www.prinzeugen.com/SBOATIND.htm

"A cockpit was set into the wheelhouse roof, placing the commander in a central position with better visibility and shelter. Although they were wonderful sea-boats, they were notoriously “wet” and every scrap of shelter was welcome! From there, he could speak through portholes directly to the wheelhouse forward and navigator aft. His "instrument panel" consisted of glass windows through which he could observe a compass and the wheelhouse interior."
http://www.bmpt.org.uk/boats/S130/index4.htm

Actually, the helmsman's windows were a decent size considering he just steered on orders from "above"
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bud_scotland/8176751934/http://www.s-boot.net/sboats-kriegsmarine-types.html

The "binocular setup" in the bridge was the torpedo-aiming system but it seemed the basic tactic was still a compensated "point (the Boat) and shoot
Click to expand...
Your almost 100% exactly correct, and the only place you are incorrect is that the voice tubes were used on the S-20 class which was the first schnellboot class to have the Captain standing above the wheelhouse behind a spray screen. The S-100 class didnt have the voice tube as the cockpit was directly above and behind the wheelhouse/pilot and the captain could communicate directly without tubes.
the windows in that picture look bigger than they are. Ive been down inside that wheel house and believe me, theyre tiny. I may pop open the secondary windows on either side of the forward looking window as they'll help, but its still a tiny field of view and i'd hate to try and dock one of these things from down there ::LOL::..
The Optical rangefinder was actually quite complex. one lens place a right side up image in the eye piece and the other placed an upside down image in the other eyepiece. when the two images lined up, you had your range. kind of like an old nikon viewfinder. A statement was made by a veteran schnellboot officer on a documentary i watched about the aiming being very precise and requiring a lot of effort. For some reason i cant fathom, it reminded me of the american bombsights where the bombardier took control of the plane to exactly position it for the drop. I've spent two days now driving the boat like it was a torpedo aiming on ai traffic and horrible as i am, it was still pretty apparent that aiming the torps from a half mile out is not easy to do.. so far i havent hit anything..

The windows mentioned for the captain to communicate with the pilot were under hinged metal caps on either side of the rangefinder/compass. They're shown pretty well in the below image.

The problem i need to resolve is, the wheelhouse is anything but optimal for steering the ship. Your head is a foot above deck level and that deck extends thirty feet in front of you.. it's really horrid. So, yeahh, i'll be building the wheelhouse/VC corectly, but frankly, i'm hoping like hell i can find some scrap of information that will give me what i need to make the boat stearable from the cockpit..

View attachment 91503

The S-20 class

View attachment 91505

I dont know why the below picture is here. I delet3ed it and including it in the S-20 lineup is incorrect as its the S-151. Please forgive me for my error..
Pam
 
fliger747 said:
Just a WAG about the steering? Possibly an autopilot to maintain course or track as these boats operated a lot at night and bad weather for maximum effectiveness. It may be the low somewhat protected steering position was selected for maximum protection in CQB. Many warships of the era relayed helm orders to a remote enclosed piloting position.

Great effort!


T
Click to expand...

I'd like to learn more about those steering positions. It makes sense and with larger craft, I can even understand docking as a tug will dock you, but in a small boat like the schnellboot's you were on your own, and even pulling into a slip at Cherbourgh could be a real challenge. Still, is looking more and more likely that thats exactly what happened in the S-100 class. and your absolutely correct about why they lowred the wheelhouse, and covered it in armor as well..
 
warchild said:
Your almost 100% exactly correct, and the only place you are incorrect is that the voice tubes were used on the S-20 class which was the first schnellboot class to have the Captain standing above the wheelhouse behind a spray screen. The S-100 class didnt have the voice tube as the cockpit was directly above and behind the wheelhouse/pilot and the captain could communicate directly without tubes.
the windows in that picture look bigger than they are. Ive been down inside that wheel house and believe me, theyre tiny. I may pop open the secondary windows on either side of the forward looking window as they'll help, but its still a tiny field of view and i'd hate to try and dock one of these things from down there ::LOL::..

The windows mentioned for the captain to communicate with the pilot were under hinged metal caps on either side of the rangefinder/compass. They're shown pretty well in the below image.
Click to expand...

Pam, I agree with the chronology, but... while the sprachrohr (speaking tube) was introduced somewhere in the time of the S-20, what I have seen does not indicate that the method was removed in later boats, only that with the windows you mention, it was possible to see and speak directly (as well).

"Improvements were made to the boat's superstructure. On early boats, the commander stood outside on the deck behind a spray shield. Behind him in the wheelhouse stood the helmsman, navigator, radio operator and engine telegraphist. The commander communicated his orders through flexible voice tubes, or via a seaman equipped with an headset intercom. The S-26 class (1940) instituted a 34.9m hull and several design changes. The torpedo tubes were enclosed in a decked-over forecastle, increasing interior space and reserve buoyancy. A cockpit was set into the wheelhouse roof, placing the commander in a centralized position with better visibility and shelter. From there, he could speak through portholes directly to the wheelhouse foward and navigator aft. His "instrument panel" consisted of glass windows through which he could observe a compass and the wheelhouse interior. (Note that there was no steering wheel in the cockpit.) Starting with S-30 (1939) several boats were built with a slightly smaller hull, 32.7m, and with the old style wheelhouse. The S-38 class was a continuation of the S-26 class with simplified ventilators and other minor changes.

Experimentation with S-67 (1942) led to a design for a partially armor plated cupola, the so-called Kalotte (skull cap), over the bridge. The added armor was a countermeasure to the growing firepower of British escort craft encountered in the English channel. This led to an armored bridge variant of the S-38 class, the S-38b which was delivered from the boatyards with the armor already in place. Shortly thereafter, the S-100 class (1943) was designed from the start to incorporate the Kalotte and additional armament..."


In fact, examination of the photos shows the sprachrohr as (probably rubberized, corrugated) tubes with a variety of mouth-pieces:
Compare the one I referenced above being used by the Commander with the tubes shown in these photos:
View attachment 91523 View attachment 91524 View attachment 91525

The middle photo of a late-war boat shows the tubes as have been modeled (in the stowed position) in your pic below. The tube would be more efficient than yelling through a port on a noisy boat with wind whipping everything away in the same way a Gosport tube (same idea) worked in open biplanes. Three tubes are appropriate as shown: 1. Wheelman; 2. Navigator on the starboard side; 3. torpedo officer? engine room as backup to the telegraph? on the port side. (just guessing at layout)

warchild said:
The problem i need to resolve is, the wheelhouse is anything but optimal for steering the ship. Your head is a foot above deck level and that deck extends thirty feet in front of you.. it's really horrid. So, yeahh, i'll be building the wheelhouse/VC corectly, but frankly, i'm hoping like hell i can find some scrap of information that will give me what i need to make the boat stearable from the cockpit..

View attachment 91503
Click to expand...
Think of it as a "system": the viewpoint is the eyes of the Commander on the bridge. Those signals get sent to the 'steering computer' (his brain). Actions are then transmitted via tube to a voice-activated 'steering gear' (seaman standing below holding wheel and connected to throttles and rudder). :icon_lol:
keep it simple -- the eyepoint is on the bridge, the sprachrorh is replaced by a bundle of nerves running from the sim 'pilot' brain down his arm to the 'wheelhouse' (joystick & throttle) I doubt that anyone would practically want to try to steer by using a mouse-over on an animated VC wheel (and the 'wheelman' likely had no command authority at all but simply acted on orders from above) that emulates the real system. Since the S-100 had a second/repeater compass on the bridge as shown it's no problem to get course information anyway (this may have been linked optically/electronically to the aiming system when needed)... Also, on the boats which had radar installed, this short-range system would likely only have a display belowdecks in the wheelhouse. These were, in no way, a single-pilot operation

Unlike the 'traditional' paradigm of a single pilot in front of all controls with direct connection and input, your analogy of the bombardier is closer to the truth and requires either a "two pilot" cockpit in FSX or a work-around that will annoy the various 'rivet counters' -- a pop-up panel emulating the below-deck steering station controls (raising the ire of those who decry pop-ups) or a small (and visually/technically incorrect) discrete wheel/throttle combo to be built into the bridge-deck VC. Don't forget that engine management and firing systems on the real-life S-boot were remote, voice-activated as well - ie commands were transmitted to crew in the engine room and at the guns, torpedo tubes and depthcharge/mine racks by voice/intercom/hand signals so the same applies in simulation. Yes, you can emulate it all with 'shared cockpit' systems but I doubt there are many who would want to run an FSX S-boot this way very often.
 
Wow drool

and I will now do my Daffy Duck imitation of pulling in my tongue which is lolling for miles this is superb crisp beautiful and all really looking forwad to this. A question which might get me flamed lol but here I go is there any chance it would be backward compatible with us over on Fs9 please say yes that it would be possible if not well might have to go FSX for this one at least for a bit

Akktu
 
Oh Gods srgalahad, Your absolutely correct. Until i saw your post with the images and the paragraoh defining the cockpit construction i never connected that those tubes were speaking tubes. I didnt know what they were to be honest, but was leaning towards assuming they were wire conduits of some form ( like the corrugated tubes in the P-61 ). Thank you for clarifying that.. I would have been making a major mistake in my construction..

Maybe i can put the co-pilot seat in the cockpit..
 
Akktu Stakki04 said:
and I will now do my Daffy Duck imitation of pulling in my tongue which is lolling for miles this is superb crisp beautiful and all really looking forwad to this. A question which might get me flamed lol but here I go is there any chance it would be backward compatible with us over on Fs9 please say yes that it would be possible if not well might have to go FSX for this one at least for a bit

Akktu
Click to expand...

Oh god's Akktu, I really dont know.. No really, i relly dont know. This is my first model for flight simulator. I still have to learn how to animate AND how to texture ( none on there yet, its a raw model your seeing ). Even right now it wouldnt run in fs9 though because theres no textures. I'll see what i can do, but with the learning curve ive given myself already, its probably not going to happen for an fs9 model as that would require learning an entirely seperate SDK and finding a version of Max that can support that SDK.
 
warchild said:
Oh Gods srgalahad, Your absolutely correct. Until i saw your post with the images and the paragraoh defining the cockpit construction i never connected that those tubes were speaking tubes. I didnt know what they were to be honest, but was leaning towards assuming they were wire conduits of some form ( like the corrugated tubes in the P-61 ). Thank you for clarifying that.. I would have been making a major mistake in my construction..

Maybe i can put the co-pilot seat in the cockpit..
Click to expand...

CO-PILOT + 1....sounds great..!:salute:
 
trowelmaster said:
@ srgalahad :It' perfect for Underway/NavalEngagement...!:mixedsmi:
Click to expand...

Want a laugh?? The original designation for the S-boats was a U, so you had U-36, U-523 etc.. These boats were used for laying mines and ASW work. It wasn until S-1 was reclassified as a torpedo boat that they ship gained the now famous S designation.
 
warchild said:
Want a laugh?? The original designation for the S-boats was a U, so you had U-36, U-523 etc.. These boats were used for laying mines and ASW work. It wasn until S-1 was reclassified as a torpedo boat that they ship gained the now famous S designation.
Click to expand...

In 1928, in light of these limitations and the dismal North Sea weather, Naval command elected to concentrate strictly on a round bottomed displacement hull. Their attention was drawn to Oheka II , a highly innovative luxury motor yacht built in 1927 by the German boatyard Luerssen for a Jewish banking tycoon who emmigrated to the United States from Germany. The name "Oheka" originated from a monogram of its owner's name, Otto HErmann KAhn. It's round bottomed hull was 22.5 m long, and displaced 22.5 tons. It reached a top speed of 34 knots, making it the world's fastest boat in its class. There is no basis in fact for the common misconception that Oheka II was a "rum runner" used for smuggling.
Oheka2.jpg

In Oheka II, Luerrsen overcame many of the drawbacks of the round bottomed displacement hull. The boat ploughed through the water by the brute force of three 550hp Maybach engines. The composite use of wood planks over alloy frames reduced weight. The innefficient tendency for round hulls to "squat" stern-down in the water at high speeds was counterbalanced by a hull form that flattened towards the stern, providing hydrodynamic lift where it was needed. Oheka II's combination of speed, strength and seaworthyness was exactly what Naval command wanted. In November 1929, Luerssen was given a contract to build a boat to the same basic design, but with two torpedo tubes on the forecastle, and a slightly improved top speed.
S1.jpg
It was to become S-1, the Kriegsmarine's first Schnellboot and the basis for the all other S-Boats built during World War 2.
 
trowelmaster said:
In 1928, in light of these limitations and the dismal North Sea weather, Naval command elected to concentrate strictly on a round bottomed displacement hull. Their attention was drawn to Oheka II , a highly innovative luxury motor yacht built in 1927 by the German boatyard Luerssen for a Jewish banking tycoon who emmigrated to the United States from Germany. The name "Oheka" originated from a monogram of its owner's name, Otto HErmann KAhn. It's round bottomed hull was 22.5 m long, and displaced 22.5 tons. It reached a top speed of 34 knots, making it the world's fastest boat in its class. There is no basis in fact for the common misconception that Oheka II was a "rum runner" used for smuggling.
Oheka2.jpg

In Oheka II, Luerrsen overcame many of the drawbacks of the round bottomed displacement hull. The boat ploughed through the water by the brute force of three 550hp Maybach engines. The composite use of wood planks over alloy frames reduced weight. The innefficient tendency for round hulls to "squat" stern-down in the water at high speeds was counterbalanced by a hull form that flattened towards the stern, providing hydrodynamic lift where it was needed. Oheka II's combination of speed, strength and seaworthyness was exactly what Naval command wanted. In November 1929, Luerssen was given a contract to build a boat to the same basic design, but with two torpedo tubes on the forecastle, and a slightly improved top speed.
S1.jpg
It was to become S-1, the Kriegsmarine's first Schnellboot and the basis for the all other S-Boats built during World War 2.
Click to expand...

And she's still beautiful to this very day..

I think perhaps you may also enjoy reading through this site ( http://www.prinzeugen.com/DesignManufacture.htm ). It has tons of information nd some surprising facts, such as the version of th boat built by Lurrsen for the Bulgarian navy.
 
They got THAT in war thunder?? They sure know how too tease someone.. Truth is Yes! I have given it a great deal of thought. Theres three things that are stopping me right now.. I just got rid of a dangerous virus from my system. In the end it cost me almost everything i had, including possibly, the meshes for this boat. Theres one drive thats not in my computer at the moment. On one partition, theres the virus, on the other partition, theres a ton of my applications and files, and hopefully, the mesh will be on there. the second thing i need is a modeler willing to button up all the places where theres gaps in the mesh. Mostly at junctions where a wall meets or runs into another wall.. Not really noticeable but i can see them.. Also wouldnt mind having the pilot house fitted out better. My simpleton skills are no match for what this boat deserves. And lastly, it really needs someone who knows their way around making textures and uv maps.. Let me try and find people who can do those things, once i find the mesh, and i'll be happy to re-release it..
 
I dont know which version your trying to get.. I thought i had uploaded it here, but i could be mistaken. I dont remember so well any more. However it doesnt exist on this server any more. In fact, even Lazarus's S-15 is gone.. Not sure whats up with that.. .There is a version available on the web, but the guy fiddleed with the model and removed the compass from th flying bridge and centering the view point instead of having it in the customary captains position on the left.He also made it umm, tiger striped.. ::eek:h well..

One thing i can say for certain. If the blurb states its a highly detailed ship, its the modified version. I would never say that about anything i build that isnt made out of numbers..
 
I can appreciate your frustration, not only with the virus's impact but the position of the helmsman and his limited visibility.
I decided to try an upgrade to the Riva 2D panel, put in some German gauges and a different view. Its a WIP solely for enjoyment
and has no basis for reality. The crew also enjoys water skiing on sunny days as well...

Almost missed that the torpedo doors open....thanks...!
 
No thanks needed Seahawk. Originally, there were supposed to be two 53cm torpedo's coming out of those tubes, but i'm really only lucky with numbrs and with other things, not so good.. I couldnt figure out how to make an effct that would launch the torps.. for the time, i think i had some cutting edge idea's. I just didnt have the knowledge to pull it off.. OOps!.. I still have my fingers crossed that its on one of these drives laying around here.. :)..
 
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