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The Staff of SOH
Martinsville antics
- Thread starter stansdds
- Start date
Wow. Gordon: The 24 wins! That's good stuff right there. Happy for him. He's always been a class act. That last restart was amazing. I had to turn the sound off and watch from a distance, lolol. Hope he wins the big prize in a couple weeks. Kenseth: It didn't seem to me that Logano intentionally took out the 20 at Kansas, and it's clear the 22 didn't “break check” the 20 at Tallsdega. All of which makes me a bit disappointed with Kenseth today. Patrick: She needs to work on this whole payback thing. She should talk to Kenseth, get a few pointers...
Hey All,
Jeff doin the Icke Daryl Waltrip Shuffle!
Congrats Jeff - a great win for the 24!
Kenseth is trash. If it were me I'd park him for the next 4 races. I think NASCAR will be harsh as they should be.
it is really puzzling to me what happened to the 2's right front wheel since the fender was not torn up at all. Why did that wheel break?
-Ed-
Jeff doin the Icke Daryl Waltrip Shuffle!
Congrats Jeff - a great win for the 24!
Kenseth is trash. If it were me I'd park him for the next 4 races. I think NASCAR will be harsh as they should be.
it is really puzzling to me what happened to the 2's right front wheel since the fender was not torn up at all. Why did that wheel break?
-Ed-
Panther_99FS
Retired SOH Administrator
IMHO,
Jeff Burton was spot-on in his "big picture" analysis. As he stated, this has been going on for a number of years with a number of different drivers. And it will continue to go on unless NASCAR really puts the hammer down instead of pussy-footing around like they've done in the past. Thus today's incident might the catalyst that forces NASCAR to take some hard action - but make no mistake, Kenseth was not the first to do this and will not be the last as long as NASCAR remains lax with this type of activity.
And EasyEd, NASCAR would do well to take a page out of F1 stern practices - a perfect example is where Michael Schumacher was banned for the ENTIRE SEASON from the driver's championship in 1997 due to his on track incident with Jacques Villeneuve.
Jeff Burton was spot-on in his "big picture" analysis. As he stated, this has been going on for a number of years with a number of different drivers. And it will continue to go on unless NASCAR really puts the hammer down instead of pussy-footing around like they've done in the past. Thus today's incident might the catalyst that forces NASCAR to take some hard action - but make no mistake, Kenseth was not the first to do this and will not be the last as long as NASCAR remains lax with this type of activity.
And EasyEd, NASCAR would do well to take a page out of F1 stern practices - a perfect example is where Michael Schumacher was banned for the ENTIRE SEASON from the driver's championship in 1997 due to his on track incident with Jacques Villeneuve.
Hey All,
First of all Burton is full of it. This has not been going on for years. Has driver retaliation been going on for years - if that is all Burton is thinking then he is clueless. Yes driver retaliation has absolutely been going on for decades but in no way has it been going on for years in this championship format where one bad result and you are probably gone. The background against which driver retaliation occurs has totally changed. This is what you and Burton don't get. In no way with this chase/championship format should driver retaliation be tolerated. Too much is at stake every race. With this chase/championship format every driver instinct to retaliate must be crushed or it is a circus. Joey did nothing wrong at kansas unless Kenseth thinks Joey you won last week let me win now. Kenseth blocked multiple times and Joey rightfully "moved" him. Every race is cutthroat now - no quarter. Like good on Kevin last week. Awareness of circumstance and reacting to situations instantly is the way it is now. The old ways are dead - now to get rid of the trash that accompanied them. Burton better smarten up.
Yes a full season suspension is a good idea although I think it too harsh in this case but I do think a suspension that sits Kenseth for the daytona 500 is appropriate. His sponsors will be pizzed and Gibbs might get a clue. Why didn't F1 sit Schumachers entire team including teammate when the teammate literally parked his car to wait for Schumacher? I will never forget watching that on TV. Why does Vettel have a clause in his contract about team orders? (see your links a couple weeks or so ago). What does it say? How in the he!! do you justify team orders? My point with F1 is simple. I do not believe a driver F1 title is in any way honourable when F1 makes no effort to equalize cars. If F1 is a technology based series in which the constructor is the almighty God - fine - then no drivers title - or - work to equalize the cars and let boys be boys. I don't think you can have both with any honor. Like Montoya said in F1 you just get in the best car and go win the race - oh an I bet the drivers title too. In no way do I see these as compatible. How often in the history of F1 has the driver in the dominant car with an obedient teammate won the title? I haven't even looked but I bet money the mexican grand prix was another Mercedes 1 - 2. I did see qualifying.
So you can preach on F1 toughness about well whatever but until I see no evidence of any team orders I ain't buyin it. There are way too many "coincidental" finishing orders in F1 for me to buy. Like the order of the universe cannot be upset.
The only team order I buy is "don't wreck your teammate" - I'm good with that. I fully recognize the "game" Brad and Joey were playing today about one holding up one line to let the other race ahead and end up with two teammates in the 1 2 positions and I'm not sure what to think except to say except NASCAR needs to sort this out and maybe one driver to another is ok even if teammates and as we saw things can go really wrong with this strategy.
-Ed-
An add OK so I now looked - mercedes 1 2 I'm so shocked.
First of all Burton is full of it. This has not been going on for years. Has driver retaliation been going on for years - if that is all Burton is thinking then he is clueless. Yes driver retaliation has absolutely been going on for decades but in no way has it been going on for years in this championship format where one bad result and you are probably gone. The background against which driver retaliation occurs has totally changed. This is what you and Burton don't get. In no way with this chase/championship format should driver retaliation be tolerated. Too much is at stake every race. With this chase/championship format every driver instinct to retaliate must be crushed or it is a circus. Joey did nothing wrong at kansas unless Kenseth thinks Joey you won last week let me win now. Kenseth blocked multiple times and Joey rightfully "moved" him. Every race is cutthroat now - no quarter. Like good on Kevin last week. Awareness of circumstance and reacting to situations instantly is the way it is now. The old ways are dead - now to get rid of the trash that accompanied them. Burton better smarten up.
Yes a full season suspension is a good idea although I think it too harsh in this case but I do think a suspension that sits Kenseth for the daytona 500 is appropriate. His sponsors will be pizzed and Gibbs might get a clue. Why didn't F1 sit Schumachers entire team including teammate when the teammate literally parked his car to wait for Schumacher? I will never forget watching that on TV. Why does Vettel have a clause in his contract about team orders? (see your links a couple weeks or so ago). What does it say? How in the he!! do you justify team orders? My point with F1 is simple. I do not believe a driver F1 title is in any way honourable when F1 makes no effort to equalize cars. If F1 is a technology based series in which the constructor is the almighty God - fine - then no drivers title - or - work to equalize the cars and let boys be boys. I don't think you can have both with any honor. Like Montoya said in F1 you just get in the best car and go win the race - oh an I bet the drivers title too. In no way do I see these as compatible. How often in the history of F1 has the driver in the dominant car with an obedient teammate won the title? I haven't even looked but I bet money the mexican grand prix was another Mercedes 1 - 2. I did see qualifying.
So you can preach on F1 toughness about well whatever but until I see no evidence of any team orders I ain't buyin it. There are way too many "coincidental" finishing orders in F1 for me to buy. Like the order of the universe cannot be upset.
The only team order I buy is "don't wreck your teammate" - I'm good with that. I fully recognize the "game" Brad and Joey were playing today about one holding up one line to let the other race ahead and end up with two teammates in the 1 2 positions and I'm not sure what to think except to say except NASCAR needs to sort this out and maybe one driver to another is ok even if teammates and as we saw things can go really wrong with this strategy.
-Ed-
An add OK so I now looked - mercedes 1 2 I'm so shocked.
Last edited:
Panther_99FS
Retired SOH Administrator
Didn't think that you would since your method of operations is to slam F1 and Indy whenever you can....And the bottom line is that you're upset because of what happened to "your" driver today....(Guess you missed all the fans cheering)..
Panther_99FS
Retired SOH Administrator
Addendum: I would support stern action by NASCAR but the key is that NASCAR must be CONSISTENT! If not, we run the risk of a driver getting seriously injured or killed.
I'll give you, EasyEd the last word - I've said all that I've wanted.
I'll give you, EasyEd the last word - I've said all that I've wanted.
Panther_99FS
Retired SOH Administrator
Some random boolean thoughts...
-If NASCAR is tough on Kenseth
AND
-If Logano doesn't qualify for Homestead
THEN what do you think will happen next year?
Panther_99FS
Retired SOH Administrator
If Gordon wins it all, it would be a career storybook ending....BUT...Keselowski and Harvick ain't out yet....I'd say 'right now', the odds are with Harvick....
Daveroo
Members +
looked to me that kesolowski turned into kenseth and that was the last starw for matt...and no ed..joey did not need to move matt..everyone blocks..its a part of racing at eny level...moving a guy to get an easy win is just chicken****,i thik matt did what he should have...lagoano took matt ut of the chase the way a child would...like earndhart,wallace and gordon have done many times.....and all three were hated before one was killed...blocking btw...one retired and the other won today....but hes been wrecked many times for his actions...as will joey.....he and brad drive the way they do now..they will be hated..not just by fans but by competitors...and it could very well get em hurt.
Hey All,
Uh no Dave watch the video. The 2 did not turn into the 20 - the 41 is pushing the 2 and gets him loose and into the 2. Brad wanted to let Joey in front of him the 41 had other ideas. Only fair the 41 gets in the wreck too.
The 20 turning the 22 was absolutely deliberate. The 20s tire did not go down. The 22 turning the 20 at kansas was completely fair. You (the 22) do not let a slower car (the 20) blocking you win in this kind of racing - the win is too important. If you can put him away you do. We don't season long points race anymore - that is the old failed way.
-Ed-
Uh no Dave watch the video. The 2 did not turn into the 20 - the 41 is pushing the 2 and gets him loose and into the 2. Brad wanted to let Joey in front of him the 41 had other ideas. Only fair the 41 gets in the wreck too.
The 20 turning the 22 was absolutely deliberate. The 20s tire did not go down. The 22 turning the 20 at kansas was completely fair. You (the 22) do not let a slower car (the 20) blocking you win in this kind of racing - the win is too important. If you can put him away you do. We don't season long points race anymore - that is the old failed way.
-Ed-
I am not sure everyone gets the subtleties of on track behavior in NASCAR. Go to any dirt short track on a Friday or Saturday night and you see little dramas play out.
I remember a guy at my home track, quite the gentleman, every Saturday he would show up with his rebuilt car, and every Saturday he would drag the wreckage home to start again.
He never said a word and he never seemed angry. He was just a very patent nice guy with good manners. That is why he was wrecked every week. Every guy who came up on him saw him as an obstacle to victory, not as a competitor.
At some point a guy has to say enough is enough. When another guy all hyped up on adrenaline comes up behind you, you want him to think twice about how he races you.
That has always been part of NASCAR from it's very beginnings an at it's lowest levels. NASCAR embraces the rubbin' is racin' reputation.
Like many things in racing it is a balance though. Take it too far and they step in. Make it dangerous and rules will be made. NASCAR would never want to totally be free of this type of drama though, it is arguably it's bread and butter .
One guy knows the potential price he will pay for making a rough pass, the other guy knows the price he will pay for the payback. Both decide if it is worth the cost.
If you are going to get payback then a short flat track like Martinsville is the place to do it.
The original Logano pass is debatable, but the interview I saw him do afterwards did bring to mind a Kurt Bush type need to be brought back down to earth a notch. Matt gets my thumbs up.
I remember a guy at my home track, quite the gentleman, every Saturday he would show up with his rebuilt car, and every Saturday he would drag the wreckage home to start again.
He never said a word and he never seemed angry. He was just a very patent nice guy with good manners. That is why he was wrecked every week. Every guy who came up on him saw him as an obstacle to victory, not as a competitor.
At some point a guy has to say enough is enough. When another guy all hyped up on adrenaline comes up behind you, you want him to think twice about how he races you.
That has always been part of NASCAR from it's very beginnings an at it's lowest levels. NASCAR embraces the rubbin' is racin' reputation.
Like many things in racing it is a balance though. Take it too far and they step in. Make it dangerous and rules will be made. NASCAR would never want to totally be free of this type of drama though, it is arguably it's bread and butter .
One guy knows the potential price he will pay for making a rough pass, the other guy knows the price he will pay for the payback. Both decide if it is worth the cost.
If you are going to get payback then a short flat track like Martinsville is the place to do it.
The original Logano pass is debatable, but the interview I saw him do afterwards did bring to mind a Kurt Bush type need to be brought back down to earth a notch. Matt gets my thumbs up.
Panther_99FS
Retired SOH Administrator
So PRB, let me ask you this. IF Kenseth gets a stern punishment, should Danica get a lighter punishment?
-> http://www.foxsports.com/nascar/sto...way-wreck-feud-sprint-cup-stewart-haas-110115
Hey All,
Yeah well lots of people like dirty drivers - like Kenseth, Edwards and the like.
Logano and Keselkowski are two of the faces of NASCAR of the future - race real hard give no quarter in "playoff" races - do not get obviously emotional - consummate professionals - like Jimmie Johnson another great in the same mold. Harvick gets it and and is capable of it - Earnhardt would have thrived even more today than in his era - drivers that do it old style will and should be gone. The days of doin it like Allison and Yarborough at the 500 in 79 while cute and quaint are dead and should be. People who admire that kind of man to man are well just old fogeys.
Larry Mac gets it and wants big penalty on Kenseth.
Nascar needs to get this one right.
-Ed-
Yeah well lots of people like dirty drivers - like Kenseth, Edwards and the like.
Logano and Keselkowski are two of the faces of NASCAR of the future - race real hard give no quarter in "playoff" races - do not get obviously emotional - consummate professionals - like Jimmie Johnson another great in the same mold. Harvick gets it and and is capable of it - Earnhardt would have thrived even more today than in his era - drivers that do it old style will and should be gone. The days of doin it like Allison and Yarborough at the 500 in 79 while cute and quaint are dead and should be. People who admire that kind of man to man are well just old fogeys.
Larry Mac gets it and wants big penalty on Kenseth.
Nascar needs to get this one right.
-Ed-
Well, she didn't hit him as hard, so I suppose so. It was a bit of a flippant remark, as is this one. Kyle Busch made a comment that the degree to which you can get away with that sort of thing has a lot to do with the name on the side of the cars involved. Maybe he's right. The radio guy on the Race Hub show made an interesting observation. He said he was in the stand when the crash happened, and everyone was cheering for Kenseth, but the next day on his radio show, everyone was after Kenseth's head, and he wondered "how does that work?" I think beer has a little to do with it... I agree with those who think NASCAR officials are secretly loving this. They wanted manufactured drama, and they found a way to manufacture it.