Clawson's SB2U joint conversion update

[kelticheart]

Roger!

Thanks for the info, TARPSbird and Fibber!

From what I just read, it appears that I have to adjust the dp one more time. The Midway version was a SB2U-3, armed with a .50" forward mg and a .30" rear mg. I'll also get rid of the dual 250lbs and the droptank array, even if they look good below. The last pic shows the SB2U equipped with a full disc prop texture.

I will keep the wing rack dual layout, but replace the 250lb with 100lb bombs, and put the 500lb payload as first choice in the selection list [payload.1].

I also started toning down the engine specs in the airfile because this aircraft uses the stock SBD specs which are not realistic. I wish I had all the correct specs like cubic inches per cylinder, intake manifold max pressure, top rpm, boost gain and altitude boost behaviour to get as close as possible to real life.
The two articles I read indicate three uprotected gas tanks, a 253 gal. in the fuselage and a 112 gal. in each wing root, easy to set but I don't know what to change to turn them into not self-sealing tanks.

Cheers!
KH :ernae:

 

[bearcat241]

easy to set but I don't know what to change to turn them into not self-sealing tanks.

Stef, after you create the actual tank parts in the dp, set their locations and make their lifepoints extremely low. This will make them vulnerable to even minimal gunfire. Check out the stock Zero's tanks for a good reference. It lights up quite well under fire.

Just for future reference, the more lifepoints you apply to a fuel cell, the more it simulates armored and self-sealing characteristics.

 

[Fibber]

engine specs

Kelti;
Is this what you need as far as engine specs?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pratt_&_Whitney_R-1535

 

[Blood_Hawk23]

SB2U-1 (54 original Order)
Engine: 615-kw (825HP) Pratt & Whitney R-1535-96 Twin Wasp Jr
2x.30 mgs (one firing forward and other on trainable mount in rear cockpit)

SB2U-2 (58 Built)
Basicly the same as the SB2U-1

SB2U-3 (First named as the Vindicator)
2x.50 mgs (one firing forward and other on trainable mount in rear cockpit)

both my books confirm this.

I'd go with the specs Fibber gave you. Its not the same model engine but should be roughly the same.

 

[Allen]

How many version of this are out there? I pulled 2 off of Simv yet the don't quite look like the one of the pics posted.

 

[TARPSBird]

Same basic plane by Paul Clawson, just some different paint and mods. The 476K file is Paul's original SB2U-1 in pre-war colors. For right now if you want a SB2U in a Battle of Midway paint job then download my SB2U-3 repaint/mod (734K) of Paul's original aircraft. The two-plane package (1.9Mb) is a rework of Paul's plane done by the Virtual Navy crew that added several features such as folding wings, flaps, a better canopy, and a basic VC. The screenshots above show the VN pre-war plane with my repaint applied by Keltic. The blue/gray camo version in the package uses different texture mapping from the pre-war version and my paint doesn't cover the cockpit area. And finally there's W. Wright's VB-3 repaint of Paul's plane (513K). Here's a screenshot of my paint on Paul's original plane, not the VN version.

 

[bearcat241]

Tarps, unless there's something weird goin' on with my computer, your uploads have dead links now. You might want to check them out and get the "Librarian" to reload your past submissions.

 

[TARPSBird]

Tarps, unless there's something weird goin' on with my computer, your uploads have dead links now. You might want to check them out and get the "Librarian" to reload your past submissions.

Thanks for the heads-up, Bearcat. I only had two files in the SOH library, one is still there but yes the Midway SB2U has gone missing at some point. I'll re-upload it here.

 

[Jagdflieger]

Vindicator

Last year I visited the National Naval Aviation Museum at Pensacola Naval Air Station and got this shot of the "Wind Indicator."

Had I know this thread would pop up, I would have taken several more photos of it including details of the engine. Darn! I'll just have to go back down there and get those photos.

You can see the bomb load out on this particular plane though which includes bombs under the wings and on the center line.

According to the book I bought at the museum, this aircraft is the only know surviving Vindicator. It was recovered from the Great Lakes after a training accident while flying from the USS Wolverine paddle wheel training carrier.

Specifications:

Model: SB2U-2 (BuNo 1383)
Engine: P&W R1535-96 with 825 HP
Max speed: 251 MPH at 9,500' ASL
Service ceiling: 27,500' ASL
Range: 1,002 miles
Armament: 1 X .50 M2 forward firing MG and one flexible .50 M2

Nothing new from what's already been posted but confirmation I guess.

 

[Fibber]

...and the prop..

in Jags picture started this all!!!

 

[Jagdflieger]

Here's a few more photos or paintings of the Vindicator from my digital library. Numbers 2 & 3 are the Vindicator in my original post. The one at the Navy Museum.

 

[kelticheart]

in Jags picture started this all!!!

Yeah! The Hamilton Standard brand emblem that we tried, to no avail so far, slapping on those blades since the beginning! :isadizzy:

Oh, boy this thread is starting to get very interesting!

Hi Bearcat!

When you talk about fuel tank lifeposts, do you mean the hit boxes in the dp, (which I never touched before, so I am afraid of screwing something up!) or the location entries for fuel tanks in the airfile? So far, since the airfile the SB2U came with has only a fuselage tank, I copied over the Hurricane small wing tanks layout.

Could you please possibly take a look of what I did so far to both FM and dp, if I sent them out to you?

Fibber:

Thanks for the engine specs! But now I am surprised to read that the P&W Wasp Junior equipping the Vindicator was a twin row, 14-cylinder radial when I always read it was a single row, 9-cylinder engine! Should I stick to Wikipedia info and change the engine specs accordingly?

Jagdflieger:

Your invariably precious photographic resources are always splendid! Thank you for postings those fine Vindicator pics!

Cheers!
KH :ernae:

 

[bearcat241]

Sure Stef...i can take a look at it. But i was referring to the fuel tank(s) setup within the dp only, not the air file. Of course, you can use the locations of the tanks in the air file as a guide for locating their positions in the dp, but that's about the only connection. As for the life points, this is the max number of damage dice values from any type of weapon that a system part can sustain before experiencing complete destruction. When viewing the dp in a text editor, the values appear in the manner of the bold type below:

[SYSTEMS]
system.0=%system_name.0%,882,0
system.1=%system_name.1%,441,2
system.2=%system_name.2%,661,3
system.3=%system_name.3%,661,4

When viewing a dp with Dped, these values appear in the [Parts] window, just below the Category box.

 

[kelticheart]

Sure Stef...i can take a look at it. But i was referring to the fuel tank(s) setup within the dp only, not the air file. Of course, you can use the locations of the tanks in the air file as a guide for locating their positions in the dp, but that's about the only connection. As for the life points, this is the max number of damage dice values from any type of weapon that a system part can sustain before experiencing complete destruction. When viewing the dp in a text editor, the values appear in the manner of the bold type below:

[SYSTEMS]
system.0=%system_name.0%,882,0
system.1=%system_name.1%,441,2
system.2=%system_name.2%,661,3
system.3=%system_name.3%,661,4

When viewing a dp with Dped, these values appear in the [Parts] window, just below the Category box.

Hi BC!

I'll take a look at those, but, if I understood correctly, there should be a [systems] section dedicated to the wing tanks in the aircraft dp. I am afraid we'll have to add it to this dp, because this SB2U came with provision for a fuselage tank only.

Now I really don't know how to add a new [systems] section to a dp file. I am attaching both dp and FM I worked on for you to review.

Speaking of something else, it's amazing how the aircraft behaviour changed with different engine specs and wing data. The Wasp Junior cubic" per cylinder is much smaller than the SBD Wright engine, even though the P&W powerplant is a 14-cylinder engine vs. a 9-cylinder.

The Vindicator became so sluggish I had to increase the low altitude compressor boost to get enough takeoff power with a 1,000 pounder under the belly. Now the top speed and the cruise speed, at 70% throttle, are close to the historical specs.

My, those Marine pilots were brave when they took on Nagumo's task force at the controls of such flying trucks!!! :salute:

Now I understand why they nicknamed them "Wind indicators"!

I added flap lift and I also entered the wing area/wingspan data from the original specs, but the rest of the tail assembly remains SBD since I haven't got that data. I figured 6 flap positons weren't correct, since the Vindicator was the first Navy plane so equipped, so I only gave two flap positions in the aircraft.cfg, a 15 and a 45 degs, as most early monoplanes had at the time. That's it for now.

Allen, TARPSbird:

Any news on the mdl update front?

Cheers!
KH :ernae:

 

[bearcat241]

The easiest way to create a system part in Dped's [PARTS] window is to take an existing part with similar damage characteristics, right-click the tab and select COPY, then right-click it again and select PASTE. This will give you an exact duplicate of the part, right next to its original. You then edit the Category of the new by scrolling through the Category menu list to find the new part's name. Above the Category box is a Parts box. After setting the new Category, you can either click the red 'UP' arrow on the Parts box to to use the new Category name or you can type in a custom part name of your own, like "Left Browning M2 50 cal. Machine Gun" instead of the typical "Left Guns" provided by the Category list.

Next below is the Life Points box where you put in the max damage numbers as discussed above.

If this new piece is a vital, location-sensitive part like an engine, or left/right fuel tank, or oil reservoir that should be hit directly to sustain critical damage, you can use the Location check-box below the Life Points box to set the exact central location that gunfire must strike the model to hit the part. This is done in meters -- lateral, vertical and horizontal in relation to the reference_datum_position established by the air files. Dped uses the RDP data from these files --- primarily the *.air file --- to establish the locations of all boxes, system parts, gun flashes and payload hardpoints.

The main reason that i use this approach is that it automatically ports the damage effects sequence and life points values from the existing parts over to new part, which saves time creating this data for the new part. For example, by simply duplicating the fuselage tank and editing the copy's location and nomenclature, you do don't have to set up any life point or effects info, since all of the fuel tanks in a particular model are supposed respond to damage the same way. I also like using this approach for making new, non-fuel tank bearing fuselage boxes after the main fuselage box, or new wing box sections in addition to an existing main wing box, which i reduce the size of to "splice" in the new section.

Hope this helps...

 

[kelticheart]

The easiest way to create a system part in Dped's [PARTS] window is to take an existing part with similar damage characteristics, right-click the tab and select COPY, then right-click it again and select PASTE. This will give you an exact duplicate of the part, right next to its original. You then edit the Category of the new by scrolling through the Category menu list to find the new part's name. Above the Category box is a Parts box. After setting the new Category, you can either click the red 'UP' arrow on the Parts box to to use the new Category name or you can type in a custom part name of your own, like "Left Browning M2 50 cal. Machine Gun" instead of the typical "Left Guns" provided by the Category list.

Next below is the Life Points box where you put in the max damage numbers as discussed above.

If this new piece is a vital, location-sensitive part like an engine, or left/right fuel tank, or oil reservoir that should be hit directly to sustain critical damage, you can use the Location check-box below the Life Points box to set the exact central location that gunfire must strike the model to hit the part. This is done in meters -- lateral, vertical and horizontal in relation to the reference_datum_position established by the air files. Dped uses the RDP data from these files --- primarily the *.air file --- to establish the locations of all boxes, system parts, gun flashes and payload hardpoints.

The main reason that i use this approach is that it automatically ports the damage effects sequence and life points values from the existing parts over to new part, which saves time creating this data for the new part. For example, by simply duplicating the fuselage tank and editing the copy's location and nomenclature, you do don't have to set up any life point or effects info, since all of the fuel tanks in a particular model are supposed respond to damage the same way. I also like using this approach for making new, non-fuel tank bearing fuselage boxes after the main fuselage box, or new wing box sections in addition to an existing main wing box, which i reduce the size of to "splice" in the new section.

Hope this helps...

Geee....

Cheers!
KH :ernae:

 

[Fibber]

Kelti;

In reply it seems that version 3 had a different engine than the 1 model. I even found some references to a P&W engine I can't even find at the P&W historical site and was used on a prototype version of the plane once and returned.

But as a references to however you want to configure the a/c here is a site with specs for all three versions;
http://www.milavnarc.com/sb2u_information_file.html

Developmental and deployment history of the a\c;
http://www.microworks.net/PACIFIC/aviation/sb2u_vindicator.htm

and another General info. site;
http://www.history.navy.mil/download/dictnry/appendx1.pdf

I guess it's dealers choice!

I did find that the 9 cylinder was a 985 Wasp which the plane was never fitted with.

 

[kelticheart]

In reply it seems that version 3 had a different engine than the 1 model. I even found some references to a P&W engine I can't even find at the P&W historical site and was used on a prototype version of the plane once and returned.

But as a references to however you want to configure the a/c here is a site with specs for all three versions;
http://www.milavnarc.com/sb2u_information_file.html

Developmental and deployment history of the a\c;
http://www.microworks.net/PACIFIC/aviation/sb2u_vindicator.htm

and another General info. site;
http://www.history.navy.mil/download/dictnry/appendx1.pdf

I guess it's dealers choice!

I did find that the 9 cylinder was a 985 Wasp which the plane was never fitted with.

Wow! The knowledge one can acquire with all the info poured into this forum is simply amazing!

According to the article in the first link the SB2U had flaperons, just like the Aichi D3A Val, we even have a working example of it in Akemi's Val, and the Hamilton Standard propeller could be reversed to slow down the aircraft during dives! This is great to know because I was not aware the prop reversing technology was developed before WWII.
I always thought WWII props worldwide could be set either variable pitch or constant speed and the reverse pitch technology became a standard only after the war.

Thank you Fibber! BTW.: I tried sending you at least the prop textures, the first thing I completed, but your e-mail address keeps bouncing back my message with an error code.

Cheers!
KH :ernae:

 

[TARPSBird]

KH, I'm not sure I can contribute much to this project. My original Midway VMSB-241 textures fit the VN pre-war SB2U, but the canopy area remains untextured (as you already found out) because VN didn't use Paul's cockpit texture. Also the bottom of the horizontal stabs keeps the same color as the top. If somebody with more mdl-hacking skills than I can texture the cockpit in blue-gray color and the bottom of the stabs in light gray we're good to go. I can adjust my textures to go on the VN Midway plane, but... that's not the plane being revised, is it?

 

[kelticheart]

Both models are the same

KH, I'm not sure I can contribute much to this project. My original Midway VMSB-241 textures fit the VN pre-war SB2U, but the canopy area remains untextured (as you already found out) because VN didn't use Paul's cockpit texture. Also the bottom of the horizontal stabs keeps the same color as the top. If somebody with more mdl-hacking skills than I can texture the cockpit in blue-gray color and the bottom of the stabs in light gray we're good to go. I can adjust my textures to go on the VN Midway plane, but... that's not the plane being revised, is it?

Hi TARPSBird!

I think both models in VN's conversion pack work more or less the same. They take all of my mods, prop textures, payloads, Flight Model, without any difference.

The reason why I concentrated on the prewar model is only because it takes your original Midway skin and I am not too attracted by fictional, generic liveries. Since VN's "Midway" model texture mappings are so different than the prewar model, adapting your skin to it looked like a big task with uncertain results for my amateur-like repainting skills. So I started working on the prewar model, instead, but I saw already that what I was doing fitted both models without a glitch.

If you are saying that VN's Midway model is easier to repaint, and you can come up with a VMSB-241 skin for it, by all means, go ahead and I'll switch all of what I did to it in a jiffy!

We'll worry about the untextured parts later, when Allen will be able to address such issue.

Thank you for your help!

Cheers!
KH :ernae: