FR Handley Page Halifax WIP

[mike_cyul]

Already got a Haliibag base done to fly it from... This one is very much on my wishlist!

Quick questions though, Mike, if I may?

Do you use LODs? I'd love to make an AI file to put a bunch of Halifaxes around the dispersals at Elvington, but experience says that might not be a good idea (read: won't be!) if it's trying to load all the detail on all the models at the same time.

Also, are any of these squadrons likely to be represented, please? 77Sq RAF, 346 "Guyenne" or 347 "Tunisie" squadrons, FFAF - these were the Halifx units based at Elvington, so would obviously be the ones I'd like to see.

Don't ask for much, do I? <whistles innocently>

All the best,

Ian P.

Hi Ian,

I haven't really got that far in planning things, but have briefly considered doing something like the freeware formations I did for the B-17 and C-47. In which case, there would be some low poly Halifax models that could be used. However, I don't believe the RAF used the very structured formations such as those of the USAAF, and so the incentive isn't high, not to mention that during night ops you likely wouldn't see another aircraft. However, I'll definitely keep your idea in mind. Would be nice to have a Halifax base to operate from!

No paint specific schemes picked yet, and whatever isn't done on initial release could be covered by the inevitable paint kit.

Mike

 

[jankees]

That looks great Mike, a sure buy from me, and with a paintkit I'm sure we can make Ian happy!

 

[IanP]

Thanks Mike.

I don't want to hijack your thread, so won't mention it any more beyond this, but Elvington is already in the "All in One" download of my stuff - EGYK is the ICAO. It looks like it could do with some re-work before I package it up on it's own, which is unsurprising, as I originally only created it for that slightly odd stiz guy who lurks around here occasionally (I'm sending him a link to this post, so he can clip me around the ear for that remark... ) but now we actually have a Halifax coming to the sim, that makes it a lot more worth the effort to spruce the airfield up.

The RAF bombers tended to operate in flights, three or four aircraft, flying in a continuous stream, rather than the US-style boxes, simply because they were trying to defeat radar and radar-guided interceptors, as oppose to the day fighters that the US encountered. The bomber streams weren't liked by the crews, who always feared collisions, but were proven to be a very effective defence, until better equipped night fighters (particularly those with upward-firing guns) came onto the scene. For that reason, a similar "combat box" formation to the B-17 one of yours that I have installed, I don't think would be particularly appropriate. I'm not sure how you'd be able to recreate a stream, in the sim, particularly well. I guess I'll have to go without my AI models. Oh well!

Cheers,

Ian P.

 

[wombat666]

Hi Ian,

I haven't really got that far in planning things, but have briefly considered doing something like the freeware formations I did for the B-17 and C-47. In which case, there would be some low poly Halifax models that could be used. However, I don't believe the RAF used the very structured formations such as those of the USAAF, and so the incentive isn't high, not to mention that during night ops you likely wouldn't see another aircraft. However, I'll definitely keep your idea in mind. Would be nice to have a Halifax base to operate from!

No paint specific schemes picked yet, and whatever isn't done on initial release could be covered by the inevitable paint kit.

Mike

The 'Bomber Stream' was the order of the day.
Or as an old (family friend) Bomber Command pilot now deceased put it, a 'Bloody great string of stragglers'.
Maynard had a curious war (His words) as he started off with Coastal Command pre 1939 and progressed through Bomber Command onto Special Operations, all the Cloak and Dagger SOE agents into occupied territory etc.
A thoroughly nice man and very 'British', shame he left us too soon, as I never did get answers to a lot of my questions re SOE.

 

[IanP]

onto Special Operations, all the Cloak and Dagger SOE agents into occupied territory etc.

Well, it's worth pointing out here that both 138(SD) and 161(SD) Squadrons used... Handley Page Halifax bombers.

138 were the most commonly associated with them, 161 primarily with Lysanders, but heck, 161 did ops using an Avro Anson I, Bostons, Wellingtons, Whitleys, Austers, Halifaxes, Mitchells, Oxfords, Sterlings... Even a Havoc I (BJ477/MA-R). If they could get their hands on it and it did what they needed it to, it was used!

Specifically for 161(SD) Squadron, I have DG286 (MA-X), a Halifax II, and LK738 (MA-T), a Halifax V, both used between 11/42 and 10/44. For 138(SD) Squadron, I have Halifax IIs JD172 (NF-S) and W1209 (NF-A), Halifax Vs LK473 (NF-J) and DG252 (NF-B). W1209 was used 10/42-08/44 and DG252 03/43 - 08/44. I don't have that info for the other two, to hand... But plenty more Halifaxes that I've already got a home for, there, Jankees!

Cheers,

Ian P.

 

[J.Case]

absolutly stunning . . . . btw - what kind of interior setup do you envision?

 

[mike_cyul]

absolutly stunning . . . . btw - what kind of interior setup do you envision?

Sorry, don't quite understand the question?

Mike

 

[J.Case]

Halifax interior

Hi Mike,

The pics from the cockpit are just awe inspiring - as far as I remember it's been a single pilot cockpit, back to back with the flight engineer and with a Navigator sitting between the bombadiers compartment and the Pilot together with the radio operator with something remotly reminding me of an isle running along the fuselage . . .

it looks like a couple of square miles for extra instrumentation, camera positions and eye candy

 

[mike_cyul]

Hi Mike,

The pics from the cockpit are just awe inspiring - as far as I remember it's been a single pilot cockpit, back to back with the flight engineer and with a Navigator sitting between the bombadiers compartment and the Pilot together with the radio operator with something remotly reminding me of an isle running along the fuselage . . .

it looks like a couple of square miles for extra instrumentation, camera positions and eye candy

Yes, and unusual arrangement, with the radio operator sitting right below the pilot's position. The flight engineer had a folding seat so as to be able to assist the pilot when needed, but as far as I can tell nothing permanent (A second control yoke and pedals could be installed for training). Navigator and bombardier together in the nose, but separated by a curtain.

To copy and paste from a reply on a different forum: If as pilot you lean over and peer down into the passageway, you'll see that the radio operators curtain is closed, as is the one leading forward to the navigator and bombardier's positions. Having curtains there is authentic (and necessary, as there won't be enough polygons available to suitably model other compartments). But leading rearwards, aft of the flight engineer's station behind the pilot, we're going to have to assume that the crew decided they didn't want light coming up front in case anyone brewed some tea in the centre section, and jury rigged a curtain sealing off the fuselage interior.

I will try to make it so that a little light leaks around the curtains, so you'll know your crew is hard at work at their individual jobs as you fly the aircraft.

Mike

 

[gribouil]

Hi Mike,
THis Halifax is really beautiful... and what a cockpit!!!
you can count me in if you add liveries from (Free French) No.346 or 347 Squadrons that were based at RAF Elvington near the city of York...
Cheers,

Stéph.

 

[mike_cyul]

Vous pouvez compter sur ça.


Mike

 

[gribouil]

Yes!!!

 

[IanP]

Guess I'm definitely updating my Elvington as well, then.

Ian P.

 

[BendyFlyer]

This is looking pretty good Mike. A fascinating aeroplane, solid operational record, interesting postwar use as the Halton. You going to include the Halton? not that it matters that much, I am in for this one too.

 

[mike_cyul]

This is looking pretty good Mike. A fascinating aeroplane, solid operational record, interesting postwar use as the Halton. You going to include the Halton? not that it matters that much, I am in for this one too.

Yes indeed, the H.P. 70 Halton will be in there, too.

Mike

 

[BendyFlyer]

Yes indeed, the H.P. 70 Halton will be in there, too.

Mike

Great news. Look forward to the release sure lot of things to do in the meantime. The Bristol Hercules engine sounds will be tricky. I presume it will be the MK III. Well if I may suggest a possible fitting paint would be 462 Squadron RAAF who operated these from 1942 to 1944 and were a pure Halifax Squadron only in WW2. Interestingly this Squadron was mostly poms for awhile but were basically Mediteranean based and did the Africa campaign etc and it was not until 1944 they went back to the UK and joined the Bomber Command campaign.

 

[SSI01]

The Halifax was supposed to be much easier for the pilot to get out of in an emergency than the Lancaster, but on the other hand, the Lancaster was judged by no less an authority than Sir Arthur Harris to be the superior aircraft.

I can see what was meant about that ease of departure. It looks like a lot roomier cockpit than a Lanc had.

 

[simondix]

That thing about the roomier cockpit reminds me of Martin Shaw [Actor] relating at one Duxford show how Brewster Buffalo pilots took evasive action. They ran around in the cockpits.

 

[mike_cyul]

The Halifax was supposed to be much easier for the pilot to get out of in an emergency than the Lancaster, but on the other hand, the Lancaster was judged by no less an authority than Sir Arthur Harris to be the superior aircraft.

I can see what was meant about that ease of departure. It looks like a lot roomier cockpit than a Lanc had.

I think the appearance of a roomier cockpit is just the perspective that an FSX VC gives. That said, Halifax's did have a slightly wider fuselage, with less encumbrances, and crews appreciated the extra room both during normal ops and especially in emergencies. The Halifax had a higher survival rate than did the Lancaster. That said, the pilot still had to find and clip on the parachute (in the dark) before using that nice large hatch above him, and once centrifugal forces set in if the aircraft spun I imagine it was as next to impossible to get out of as anything else. And the pilot would stay with the aircraft longer than anyone else before trying to get out.

As far as which is superior, the Lancaster or the Halifax, that's probably a good discussion, but I think the early model Halifax with Merlin engines was definitely inferior (apparently primarily due to problems with propwash over the wing due to the Merlins' placement) and needed a long development period, not to mention the rudder stalls with the early tail shape. The later Hercules-engined variants with the square fins were as good as anything else. The Lancaster came out-of-the-box in pretty good shape and so had less of a history of headaches. From Harris' point of view, the Lancaster could carry much larger bombs due to the bomb bay design, and that's what counted for him!

Mike

 

[AussieMan]

The Lancaster came out-of-the-box in pretty good shape and so had less of a history of headaches. From Harris' point of view, the Lancaster could carry much larger bombs due to the bomb bay design, and that's what counted for him!

Mike

Actually Mike The Lancaster was a derivative of the Avro Manchester. Lack of power and performance forced Avro to redesign the Manchester by extending the wingspan to 102ft and adding 4 Rolls Royce Merlin engines although a mark of the Lancaster retained the Bristol Hercules engines.