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The Staff of SOH
FS2004 Screenshots Here!!!
- Thread starter ZsoltB
- Start date
Mick
SOH-CM-2025
This was a problem in FS202 and back then "FS Aviator" posted (here or elsewhere I don't recall) a solution that I saved in my FlightSim Help Files folder. I don't know if the problem is quite the same in FS9 as it was in FS8 but I'd guess that it is. Anyway, this is what FS Aviator posted:
"STICKY" WATER
Comments by FSAviator on the hydroplane problem in FS2002.
Whilst writing 'realistic' FDE for a particularly under-powered floatplane I have discovered the real situation in FS2002.
In real life and in FS2002 waves break the surface tension of the water making it easier for a hydroplane to take off. Historically many real hydroplanes could not take off from flat calm water at high weights.
To succeed in taking off in a hydroplane with realistic float immersion, realistic weight, and realistic power in FS2002 two things must be true;
1) The wave state must be adequate.
2) The aircraft must be adequately into wind (*aligned to the waves*).
If you cannot move on the water with full throttle you must;
a) slew the aircraft into wind (using slew controls)
And if you still cannot move,
b) increase the wind speed at the surface
The latter will increase the wave state and reduce the surface tension.
I am not entirely sure whether the wave state is physically simulated or just virtually Calculated. There seems to be at least some physical simulation of variable wave state.
In general you can avoid the need to slew or mess with the weather menu by remembering to land into wind, and with enough wind to take off again. Of course if you taxied to a dock you may have to slew away from the dock, (push off from the dock or get a tow from a boat), into wind before you can taxi under engine power. Personally, I moor into wind on a vacant buoy and call for the duty launch :->
The bottom line is FS2002 will prevent movement from rest on water if either your alignment to the wind (waves) or current wave state make take off from that start position impossible.
That is the nature and extent of the 'sticky water' bug.
In practice it is often a chosen user setting in FSUIPC which frustrates hydroplane movement, but other weather related modules must also be set to allow sufficient wind at the surface. Don't blame the authors of the modules. They don't choose the settings. You may have to disable taxi wind controls, max surface wind controls etc., you have set in modules such as FSUIPC to achieve the wave states needed for take off in a hydroplane with a realistic flight model. Don't forget to reset FSUIPC etc., afterwards for normal runway operations.
If you are using real weather you can wait for it to change just like real life :-< or you can increase the wind speed (wave state) manually in the local weather. (The warning above re external modules still applies.) If you create an appropriate wind condition (wave state) and take off into wind, any hydroplane with a realistic flight model, however heavy, and however under powered, that can take off in real life, will take off in FS2002.
The max take off weight (useful load) from water is dependent on the relative wind vector at the moment of throttle up. You can take off cross wind (along a river) only if you are light enough. You can however start moving into wind and turn out of wind so long as you keep your speed up enough. The take off will be longer of course. Watch those river bends.
Real as it gets? Maybe not, but this is the real reason behind reports in the forums that hydroplanes with realistic flight models, which will normally take off, sometimes get 'stuck'. Various incorrect explanations varying from sand banks to only water with this or that texture are enabled for hydroplanes have been given. FDE authors should note that therefore it is not our job to create 'bouncy floats' with the knock on problems that can cause. The user should instead be waiting for, and pointing the aircraft into, 'bouncy water'. In any event It does not matter how ridiculously bouncy an FDE author makes the floats, an adequate into wind (wave) alignment is still required.
There are of course overpowered flight models which will take off from anywhere at any weight. The 'sticky water bug' only afflicts realistic hydroplane flight models. Some of existing realistic hydroplane flight models may appear to be 'broken', but in reality it is just a case of learning to use them correctly.
Hope that helps everyone.
FSAviator, November 2002
"STICKY" WATER
Comments by FSAviator on the hydroplane problem in FS2002.
Whilst writing 'realistic' FDE for a particularly under-powered floatplane I have discovered the real situation in FS2002.
In real life and in FS2002 waves break the surface tension of the water making it easier for a hydroplane to take off. Historically many real hydroplanes could not take off from flat calm water at high weights.
To succeed in taking off in a hydroplane with realistic float immersion, realistic weight, and realistic power in FS2002 two things must be true;
1) The wave state must be adequate.
2) The aircraft must be adequately into wind (*aligned to the waves*).
If you cannot move on the water with full throttle you must;
a) slew the aircraft into wind (using slew controls)
And if you still cannot move,
b) increase the wind speed at the surface
The latter will increase the wave state and reduce the surface tension.
I am not entirely sure whether the wave state is physically simulated or just virtually Calculated. There seems to be at least some physical simulation of variable wave state.
In general you can avoid the need to slew or mess with the weather menu by remembering to land into wind, and with enough wind to take off again. Of course if you taxied to a dock you may have to slew away from the dock, (push off from the dock or get a tow from a boat), into wind before you can taxi under engine power. Personally, I moor into wind on a vacant buoy and call for the duty launch :->
The bottom line is FS2002 will prevent movement from rest on water if either your alignment to the wind (waves) or current wave state make take off from that start position impossible.
That is the nature and extent of the 'sticky water' bug.
In practice it is often a chosen user setting in FSUIPC which frustrates hydroplane movement, but other weather related modules must also be set to allow sufficient wind at the surface. Don't blame the authors of the modules. They don't choose the settings. You may have to disable taxi wind controls, max surface wind controls etc., you have set in modules such as FSUIPC to achieve the wave states needed for take off in a hydroplane with a realistic flight model. Don't forget to reset FSUIPC etc., afterwards for normal runway operations.
If you are using real weather you can wait for it to change just like real life :-< or you can increase the wind speed (wave state) manually in the local weather. (The warning above re external modules still applies.) If you create an appropriate wind condition (wave state) and take off into wind, any hydroplane with a realistic flight model, however heavy, and however under powered, that can take off in real life, will take off in FS2002.
The max take off weight (useful load) from water is dependent on the relative wind vector at the moment of throttle up. You can take off cross wind (along a river) only if you are light enough. You can however start moving into wind and turn out of wind so long as you keep your speed up enough. The take off will be longer of course. Watch those river bends.
Real as it gets? Maybe not, but this is the real reason behind reports in the forums that hydroplanes with realistic flight models, which will normally take off, sometimes get 'stuck'. Various incorrect explanations varying from sand banks to only water with this or that texture are enabled for hydroplanes have been given. FDE authors should note that therefore it is not our job to create 'bouncy floats' with the knock on problems that can cause. The user should instead be waiting for, and pointing the aircraft into, 'bouncy water'. In any event It does not matter how ridiculously bouncy an FDE author makes the floats, an adequate into wind (wave) alignment is still required.
There are of course overpowered flight models which will take off from anywhere at any weight. The 'sticky water bug' only afflicts realistic hydroplane flight models. Some of existing realistic hydroplane flight models may appear to be 'broken', but in reality it is just a case of learning to use them correctly.
Hope that helps everyone.
FSAviator, November 2002
Motormouse
SOH-CM-2025
Kirk Olsson's VIPER on the ground at Hill AFB, 140th FW, Colorado ANG.
View attachment 164862
As an SOH bonus, I did some digging and found out the 140th's callsign is RED EYE.
Does anyone know about an AFCAD or scenery for Buckley AFB (KBKF)?
I included my recently-cobbled EVP mod, below:
Sbob
SOH-CM-2025
Thanks, Andy.
I was searching around earlier and saw that download.
I was looking more for a stand-alone AFCAD but I'll check it out.
Update- A search at MAIW's forum turned up this:
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That's a brilliant shot Huub! The aircraft, carrier, water and wake look brilliant!
The Midway/Coral Sea scenery with the donationware Dauntless.
Cheers,
Huub
Priller
Thanks for the kind words.
When I look at the screenshots from the latest MS flight simulator versions I often have to look twice, to see whether the images are real world or from the sim. But although FS2004 will never match this, I think this ancient sim still looks pretty cool.
The amount of high quality (freeware) mods for this sim in unbelievable and the sim itself is quite stable and pretty easy to modify.
Cheers,
Huub
When I look at the screenshots from the latest MS flight simulator versions I often have to look twice, to see whether the images are real world or from the sim. But although FS2004 will never match this, I think this ancient sim still looks pretty cool.
The amount of high quality (freeware) mods for this sim in unbelievable and the sim itself is quite stable and pretty easy to modify.
Cheers,
Huub
You have PMHuub; WHAT Midway/Coral Sea scenery?
Is there a version for FS9 that we might all enjoy, and if so, where could we find it?
I think the question about Yanco San's Midway/Coral Sea scenery has already been solved by Zwobbie1 
.
Here another blast from the past. The Simtech P39 Airacobra. (But the repaint is new...)
32 squadron was active from the Netherlands West-Indies from March 1942 until March 1944. The task was to perform anti-submarines patrols on German submarines which attacked merchant ships in the Caribbean area. Chasing Wolfpacks provided them the nickname Wolfhounds.
Between November 1954 and January 1994 this squadron was active from Soesterberg AB in the Netherlands.
This particular aircraft was flown by First Lieutenant Donald L. Baker in March 1944, when the unit moved from the Netherlands West Indies to France Airfield in Panama.
Cheers,
Huub
.Here another blast from the past. The Simtech P39 Airacobra. (But the repaint is new...)
32 squadron was active from the Netherlands West-Indies from March 1942 until March 1944. The task was to perform anti-submarines patrols on German submarines which attacked merchant ships in the Caribbean area. Chasing Wolfpacks provided them the nickname Wolfhounds.
Between November 1954 and January 1994 this squadron was active from Soesterberg AB in the Netherlands.
This particular aircraft was flown by First Lieutenant Donald L. Baker in March 1944, when the unit moved from the Netherlands West Indies to France Airfield in Panama.
Cheers,
Huub
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Motormouse
SOH-CM-2025
Are you making that paint available Huub?
Looks much better than Simtech own paint.
Ttfn
Pete
Looks much better than Simtech own paint.
Ttfn
Pete
No worries, I will Pete. As I couldn't find Dave Green's paintkit anywhere, I created a new paintkit for this repaint. Reading about the P39s from the Sixth Air Force, I learned that they were repainted in the Panama Air Depot at Madden Field Panama in a non-standard scheme using land-lease colours. I might use this paintkit in the future to recreate one of these liveries.
Cheers,
Huub
Mick
SOH-CM-2025
Outstanding paint job! Thank you! I've always liked the P-39 for its looks, and it was reputably a great flying plane - as long as one didn't shoot off all the ammunition and let the CG get too far aft. I recall that some aces - if I recall correctly, Bud Anderson was one - trained on the P-39 and said that they loved how it flew, but they wouldn't pick it as a plane to go to war in. I like that old SimTech model too. I recall that back when it was released it was thought to be too demanding on resources for some systems, but not for today's rigs.
Sbob
SOH-CM-2025
I think the question about Yanco San's Midway/Coral Sea scenery has already been solved by Zwobbie1
Cheers,
Huub
Something may even be in the works..
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