Question about Helicopter usage in sim

[PhantomTweak]

Remember, HTR configs and settings are sensitive to each system's differences. What works perfectly for system X won't work worth a darn for system Y. The trick is to read the documentation that comes with HTR. It contains a PDF on HOW-TO make your own .cfg file from scratch, and another containing each and every .cfg file entry, what they do to/for the helicopter and control input/outputs, and how to adjust them for your plane on your system.

Also, Jordan Moore, a superb and very educated helicopter developer, wrote two article on how to tweak the aircraft and .air file to make the MSFS limitations and errors at least controllable. I've found them excellent. Part 1 is here: http://www.hovercontrol.com/artman/publish/article_67.shtml , and part 2 is here: http://www.hovercontrol.com/artman/publish/article_88.shtml .
They are fascinating, and I strongly recommend reading them, at the very least.

Make sure you have the correct version of HTR for your sim. FSX:SE, and the latest FSUIPC for it, requires V6.2, and FSX (I think P3D as well), with the latest FSUIPC needs V6.1. You may need to google them. I don't recall Fred putting up a link on Hovercontrol, but hey, I may be wrong. AND he may have updated again. I haven't had a chance to check up on it in a couple months.

Bear in mind, there's a huge difference between "easy to fly", and how a helicopter really flies. If you have everything just right, they will be flyable, but not a one of them is easy.

Setting the realism sliders down off max right makes a big difference, and most devs set up the .air file entries for such a setting. Anywhere down off max makes a big change in the aircraft.cfg and .air file's settings utilization. Like the low_realism_stability_scale= setting mentioned previously. It's only applied if the realism sliders (and I don't recall just which one) are down off max. If you set them to 99%, it's applied, 100%, it's not. See? I leave mine at about 80-90%.
And Null zones should be 0, or very very close there-to, with the sensitivity maxxed out, or close to it. This is for a hall-effect type controller. No "dead spot" like the potentiometer type controllers have. No matter how old they get. They either work, or not.
I haven't used a potentiometer type in a long time, so I can't recall just what they need, but I know you have to have a wide enough Null zone setting to accommodate the "dead spot" all pots have. An it changes with use. It may get larger, smaller, whatever. Usually larger, though.

Try Jordan's adjustments first, as well, and work from there. THEN step into HTR's world. It's an amazing bit of software. When properly utilized and set up.

Pat☺

 

[awstub]

Usually, I fly them while checking scenery placement.

Helos can be frustrating. I think it's because of the lack of depth perception you experience (unless you have a VR rig).

 

[Dangerous Beans]

Usually, I fly them while checking scenery placement.

Helos can be frustrating. I think it's because of the lack of depth perception you experience (unless you have a VR rig).

I fly exclusively in VR these days and it makes a huge difference in Helos and I enjoy flying them now whereas before as awstub says they where just frustrating.

 

[LouP]

Did anyone do better with HTR?


Cheers,
Mark

I've had some luck with it. Some helis do better than others. The Cera 412 and 212 work very nicely with it, then again they seem to work well anyway. But, I found some helis just would not respond to control inputs with htr for some reason.

Also, flying in VR has made the helis so much more fun. You just seem to be able to anticipate things so much better in VR. I only need a seat that moves properly now for that seat of the pants feeling lol.


LouP

 

[Alan_A]

About five years ago I spent a solid year-plus flying nothing but helos - mostly the Dodosim Bell 206 in FSX. Used custom helo controls. Found I was able to get pretty good at it, but not more than that - didn't get to real proficiency, and in the end I was happy to get back to fixed wing. But I learned a lot and still draw on some of it - I think I was able to handle single-seat warbirds well after managing helo torque, and get good landings in a whole range of aircraft, thanks to my helo approaches and touchdowns. I don't think I'd want to go back to rotary wing but I'm glad I hung out with it for a while.

 

[PhantomTweak]

If only I could use VR!
You gotta have two good eyes for VR to work at all, and I'm down to one left.
I ran into a horse at 60 MPH on my bike, and bounce down the highway. Messed one of my eyes all kinds of up.
No close in depth perception, like within arm's reach or so, like trying to pick something up, or catch something thrown to me, but I've learned how to fake distance depth perception, like when I'm driving. It's all the feel of the focus. You'd be surprized. Normally, your brain uses parallax for distance, but I've learned another way, and my brain is pretty good at "feeling" the focus of the eye for depth perception.
Kind of frustrating, though. I used to be a good juggler, but I lost the eye, and that was the end of that, drat it. It's FUN!

Anyway, no VR for me! Pity, I think helicopters would be better with it...

Pat☺

 

[Daube]

Hello Flyers.

I have seen lots of posts recently about Helicopters, but I for one have never gotten into them, mainly because I have always had so much trouble flying them in sim, mostly landing. So I was wondering if my experience is typical of others or how much am I in the minority, so I have devised this simple poll to find out.

I believe we all had severe trouble to fly helicopters. These are the most difficult thing to pilot, aren't they ?
However, with a little bit of training, and with nice sceneries to fly over, the helicopter are quite a rewarding experience.
If you want to train, I would recommend you to use helicopters on wheels, and at first, try to fly them like an airplane, both for takeoff and landings.
Then progressively, try reducing your speed more and more. This will require more control of the engine power and rudder. If you go progressively enough (which means you don't attempt to hover after two tries...), you will get to "feel" and anticipate the required inputs on power and rudder.
That being said, I fly helicopters in the sim since FS9, and I'm still unable to do a proper hover (a real clean one, like the rescue pilots do, for example).
I can however takeoff and land anywhere I want, including very small surfaces.

Regarding the poll, I still fly mostly (2/3) fixed wings. But this is also due to the very small amount of quality helicopters available for our sims.
The Milviz Huey is probable my current favorite, followed by the MP Design Gazelle and the S-55.

 

[Ganter]

I fly exclusively in VR these days and it makes a huge difference in Helos and I enjoy flying them now whereas before as awstub says they where just frustrating.

Track IR here - and yes, being able to glance out of the side windows without having to TopHat it makes a very big difference. It's situational awareness in the hover - predicting the helos movements, being ready to counter - not too much, constant small inputs, ready with the power.

I committed to helos about a year ago - flying them at least an hour in the sim each week - to begin with much more. After a year or so I reckon I'm 'okay' - I can hover taxi, hover, etc. Put the helo where I want it; flight deck, clearing in the woods, on the heliport on the top of the lighthouse.

That's after an estimated 75 hours of flight!

It is practice - you will get better and when you do they're a great buzz.

 

[LouP]

I'm lucky enough to have a dedicated heli setup with cyclic, collective, and anti-tourqe pedals so take this with a grain of salt but I was tought to have my settings almost the opposite of some suggestions here. Sliders are all full right and NO null zones. Idea being that you want your inputs to register as soon as posible but get ready to "correct" that as soon as possible with quick subtle movements. Ounce you do it for a while, you learn what the helis reaction to your input is going to be and anticipate what might be needed next. Constant small corrections. Remember, these things don't fly, the earth repels them because their so ugly.

LouP

PS. I miss the Dodo

 

[Naismith]

Instead of hovering, I tend to plummet.

 

[William Njurmi]

Most annoying thing to me when flying helos is that that I have to push the stick all the time to fly level. DCS helos are much more controllable. Otherwise great platform for special missions in all sims.

 

[thefrog]

I found that it suddenly all came together after years of frustration: some tips from various forums made all the difference especially with hovering (which I found the most difficult) such as not fixating on the ground immediately in front of you but looking into the middle distance and making tiny frequent inputs with the cyclic and then immediately returning it to the neutral position. Also, learning to see and anticipate which way the machine is starting to go and correcting for it almost before it’s done it.
Practice actually doesn’t make perfect unless you’re practicing the correct techniques!

 

[PhantomP]

Does anybody know if the latest version of HTR 1.6.2 works with FSX gold,or boxed addition? I found a couple of links,but one page says it works only with the steam version,and the other link says it works with FSX,and the steam version?Thanks

 

[vortex]

Does anybody know if the latest version of HTR 1.6.2 works with FSX gold,or boxed addition? I found a couple of links,but one page says it works only with the steam version,and the other link says it works with FSX,and the steam version?Thanks

There's no reason it should ONLY work with FSX:SE. The readme file which comes with v1.62 says: "tested under FSX and FSX Steam Edition".

 

[Ganter]

Instead of hovering, I tend to plummet.

LOL. Just rereading Fate Is The Hunter; the instructor Captain turns to the co-pilot who's just performed very badly in the DC-2 and says quietly; "That wasn't a landing, it was an arrival."

Remember as a helo pilot you need to be more obsessed with wind and wind direction than fixed wing.

ALWAYS know where it's coming from and always aim to land directly in to it - then you're not hovering - you're flying forwards (though with zero ground speed) at whatever the wind speed is. Dial it up in the sim to make it easier. Dial it back when it's getting too easy.

Try landing on Nimitz (with her under way and in to wind) - again, you're not hovering - but the deck's stationary below.

When you can hover in zero wind - Hey, guess what? - you're a goddamn helo pilot.

 

[PhantomP]

There's no reason it should ONLY work with FSX:SE. The readme file which comes with v1.62 says: "tested under FSX and FSX Steam Edition".

Thanks for the answer vortex,I appreciate it.

 

[blanston12]

Does anybody know if the latest version of HTR 1.6.2 works with FSX gold,or boxed addition? I found a couple of links,but one page says it works only with the steam version,and the other link says it works with FSX,and the steam version?Thanks

Does anyone know if HTR is compatible with or useful when using P3D?

 

[LouP]

I tested HTR in P3D v4.2 out last night but wasn't happy. My Cera 365 started running away on it's own and there was nothing I could do to stop it from rolling away. The 212 and 412 which I remember working well in fsx with HTR were not good in p3d. Full right on the pedals had practically no effect and couldn't turn right. I would bank right and instead of turning I flew on my side in a straight line. I'm not a rw heli pilot but I don't think that would happen in real life. I'm putting it away and waiting for the new 64 bit dodo being worked on. You can read Mark and Simon's log about the 64 bit dodo over at hovercontrol's forum. I'll be snatching that up as soon as it is released. You may need to be a member to read this.

http://www.hovercontrol.com/cgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.cgi?;act=ST;f=46;t=22770;hl=206

Meanwhile there's some pretty challenging birds out there with decent enough flight dynamics. I'm one of those sickos that really enjoys the Nemeth AS350, AS355, EC130 and all the Cerasim birds. Oh and my latest like are the MP Design Gazelles (the S55 is pretty good, too)

 

[Portia911]

Thanks for starting this thread, Joe. It is a most interesting read.
I'm just getting back into choppers - flying a float-equipped Bell 47 (Flysimware) around Chichagof Island, AK. Good thing about this is I can land pretty much where I want (on the water) at SPBs, so can be practicing my approach/decent/hover/landing without having to have the pin-point accuracy of landing on an 'X' or 'H'.

 

[blanston12]

Thanks for starting this thread, Joe. It is a most interesting read.
I'm just getting back into choppers - flying a float-equipped Bell 47 (Flysimware) around Chichagof Island, AK. Good thing about this is I can land pretty much where I want (on the water) at SPBs, so can be practicing my approach/decent/hover/landing without having to have the pin-point accuracy of landing on an 'X' or 'H'.

I am glad so many people are enjoying this also. So many good tips, Daube's suggestion of wheeled helo's is something I never would have though of, I always tried the small ones that only had skids but it makes a lot of sense, now I just need to find time to try all these suggestions.

This also makes me more interested in VR goggles, but I don't think the wife would be very happy with me when I am totally in the virtual world.