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The Staff of SOH
RA Dukes
- Thread starter AussieMan
- Start date
Bjoern
worst developer ever
You're out of luck for now as there are no more shops offering the last line of RealAir products.
Rumor has it that a new publisher is going to take care of their aircraft, but it could be weeks/months/years/decades/centuries/millennia till this happens.
Two euro cents: Pulling products from shops without offering any alternative is awful PR. If you can't go on with your product line, either find a new publisher or offer the stuff with a discount, but without support (see RAZBAM) or go freeware (RFP 742). I do understand the RealAir team's motivation to leave things aside, but I just can't fathom why they wouldn't want the additional revenue...
Rumor has it that a new publisher is going to take care of their aircraft, but it could be weeks/months/years/decades/centuries/millennia till this happens.
Two euro cents: Pulling products from shops without offering any alternative is awful PR. If you can't go on with your product line, either find a new publisher or offer the stuff with a discount, but without support (see RAZBAM) or go freeware (RFP 742). I do understand the RealAir team's motivation to leave things aside, but I just can't fathom why they wouldn't want the additional revenue...
I agree that there are things more important that money. Also, I applaud the RA staff for that. I do wish that there was a system/resource for getting their wonderful models after they decided not to keep going. I think that even if they didn't decide to keep the development going on airplanes, they could have at least kept an option open for purchase of what they have done.
That being said (no I do not have the expertise), I only hope that the RA legacy can keep on.
That being said (no I do not have the expertise), I only hope that the RA legacy can keep on.
Blackbird686
SOH-CM-2025
And there probably will not be an "official" statement from RealAir indicating that that sort of thing is now permissible, since as an "entity"... they no longer exist. It's a tough call. I tried numerous times to contact Rob regarding the licensed copy of the Sf.260 I have, some time shortly after the announcement they made about closing up. No joy in Mudville.
BB686
heywooood
Mayor Emeritus of Taco City
I had purchased both the SF260 and the Citabria years ago - both files since displaced by new hard drives and so forth..Both models were very good and I would love to have them back.
The Duke and Spitfire were on my short list when the hammer dropped. I just wonder how there can be an EULA if the license holder vacates the agreement first. How do you break trust with an empty house??
The Duke and Spitfire were on my short list when the hammer dropped. I just wonder how there can be an EULA if the license holder vacates the agreement first. How do you break trust with an empty house??
blanston12
SOH-CM-2025
Just because RealAir has gone inactive and don't want to sell there products, does not mean they have given up their ownership rights, they may decide to use it another way in the future.
heywooood
Mayor Emeritus of Taco City
I don't see how they correlate. They still have the original files. No one is saying lets change the models or reconfigure them. WE are not talking about the source code which is their IP - only sharing the files as they exist and since they are no longer a source of revenue and no one is being harmed financially it is difficult if not impossible to see what the problem is.
blanston12
SOH-CM-2025
Its still there right to use it as they wish. They may decide in the future to sell it to someone else, but if we flood the market with free copies that reduces the value of there property. No different from Microsoft deciding they don't want to sell FSX any more so they can sell it to someone else.
BendyFlyer
Charter Member
Heywoood and others - because a business no longer trades does not mean they have given up the copyright to the products they made and sold previously. The only time you or I can freely hand over such material to any other person or make it available is if you can prove (at law) they have abandoned the product. That is the law internationally and within various US and EU jurisdictions regarding this problem. I can sympathise with folks frustration when this happens.
How can I speak with certainty about this, simple I had cause to redo and rebuild two of JBK's models with particular reference to the VC's etc. the Hythe which was converted back into a Sunderland MK V and the Shorts S23 or C Class flying boat. Every effort to contact JBK met a dead end (he may even have passed away) and then additionally I need copyright approval or public license for a number of the gauges etc I used. To their credit everybody associated with SIMOUTHOUSE and Just Flight said no problem you can do that as it is not for sale but the textures and turret mods were done by a chap in NZ who has never responded to any of my requests but is still active on some flight sim forums, as a result I cannot upload or distribute these products. I lack the legal proof on one hand the models have been abandoned and I also lack the required permission from the copyright owner of part of the work to get it out and available. It is a nightmare problem.
I would be looking to see if you can find one that fell off the back of a truck and keep it to yourself. In my case I left an email trail as long as the interstate so I can do nothing.
How can I speak with certainty about this, simple I had cause to redo and rebuild two of JBK's models with particular reference to the VC's etc. the Hythe which was converted back into a Sunderland MK V and the Shorts S23 or C Class flying boat. Every effort to contact JBK met a dead end (he may even have passed away) and then additionally I need copyright approval or public license for a number of the gauges etc I used. To their credit everybody associated with SIMOUTHOUSE and Just Flight said no problem you can do that as it is not for sale but the textures and turret mods were done by a chap in NZ who has never responded to any of my requests but is still active on some flight sim forums, as a result I cannot upload or distribute these products. I lack the legal proof on one hand the models have been abandoned and I also lack the required permission from the copyright owner of part of the work to get it out and available. It is a nightmare problem.
I would be looking to see if you can find one that fell off the back of a truck and keep it to yourself. In my case I left an email trail as long as the interstate so I can do nothing.
Blackbird686
SOH-CM-2025
I get the copyright to their products bit. But as you so stated, an e-mail trail as long as Interstate 9 seems proof enough that they have abandoned their paying customers who at one time had a specific product, or new customers who are looking to procure their products. Just say'in.
BB686
The products have indeed not been abandoned.
The installers still require you to log in to the RealAir account before they will run
and doing that allows a re-install.
The original question was are they still available and in my humble view, the answer is no.
To refer to another quiet remark, they have always been made available by the unscrupulous
to the equally unscrupulous and I expect that they still are.
The installers still require you to log in to the RealAir account before they will run
and doing that allows a re-install.
The original question was are they still available and in my humble view, the answer is no.
To refer to another quiet remark, they have always been made available by the unscrupulous
to the equally unscrupulous and I expect that they still are.
heywooood
Mayor Emeritus of Taco City
Sorry - completely different as MS is still a viable company. Still open for business while RA is gone.
heywooood
Mayor Emeritus of Taco City
Also I am beginning to resent the implication that I am advocating piracy or theft of an IP. Why is it that a reasonable conversation cannot be had about abandoned sofware being shared. There is no theft where there is no ownership or marketplace. No one is suggesting the files be altered or resold, merely shared. If there is no proprietor, how can proprietary rights be infringed upon? Remember - I'm just asking a question and not encouraging or endorsing a crime.
heywooood
Mayor Emeritus of Taco City
Over the years Rob and the other folks at RealAir did a fantastic job of supporting the flight sim community. I think at this time, they deserve our thanks and respect.
A copyright (at least in the U.S.) lasts for somewhere between 95 years and the life of the author plus 70 years. The definition of copyright abandonment from Wikipedia states -
"Abandonment is recognized as the explicit release of material by a copyright holder into the public domain. However, statutory abandonment is legally a tricky issue which has little relevant case precedent to establish how an artist can abandon their copyright during their lifetime. The more common approach is to license work under a scheme that provides for public use rather than strictly abandoning copyright.
Copyright protection attaches to a work as soon as it is fixed in a tangible medium, whether the copyright holder desires this protection or not. Before the Copyright Act of 1976 an artist could abandon or forfeit their copyright by neglecting to comply with the relevant formalities. Difficulty arises when one tries to apply the doctrine of abandonment to present-day concerns regarding the abandonment or gifting of a digitized work to the public domain. The abandonment of a work is difficult to prove in court, though Learned Hand proposed a test which parallels other forms of abandonment law wherein an author or copyright holder could abandon their work if they intend to abandon it and commit an overt act to make public that intention.[SUP][4][/SUP] Despite this test, the current legal environment towards protectionism is so strong that a court might disregard an author’s statements regarding their intent."
As suggested above, abandonment has nothing to do with choosing not to sell or provide further support of the work. The bottom line is that the copyright of RealAir will continue in their works.
I'm not thrilled with this result, but I'm going to respect the decision RealAir made (AND only beg this one time that they re-open sales of their products for a 2 or 4 week window so I can purchase the models I don't have). Good luck to Rob and the other RealAir folks.
A copyright (at least in the U.S.) lasts for somewhere between 95 years and the life of the author plus 70 years. The definition of copyright abandonment from Wikipedia states -
"Abandonment is recognized as the explicit release of material by a copyright holder into the public domain. However, statutory abandonment is legally a tricky issue which has little relevant case precedent to establish how an artist can abandon their copyright during their lifetime. The more common approach is to license work under a scheme that provides for public use rather than strictly abandoning copyright.
Copyright protection attaches to a work as soon as it is fixed in a tangible medium, whether the copyright holder desires this protection or not. Before the Copyright Act of 1976 an artist could abandon or forfeit their copyright by neglecting to comply with the relevant formalities. Difficulty arises when one tries to apply the doctrine of abandonment to present-day concerns regarding the abandonment or gifting of a digitized work to the public domain. The abandonment of a work is difficult to prove in court, though Learned Hand proposed a test which parallels other forms of abandonment law wherein an author or copyright holder could abandon their work if they intend to abandon it and commit an overt act to make public that intention.[SUP][4][/SUP] Despite this test, the current legal environment towards protectionism is so strong that a court might disregard an author’s statements regarding their intent."
As suggested above, abandonment has nothing to do with choosing not to sell or provide further support of the work. The bottom line is that the copyright of RealAir will continue in their works.
I'm not thrilled with this result, but I'm going to respect the decision RealAir made (AND only beg this one time that they re-open sales of their products for a 2 or 4 week window so I can purchase the models I don't have). Good luck to Rob and the other RealAir folks.
