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YouTube disenchantment

collensr

SOH-CM-2025
I have watched two pretty depressing videos in recent days from two YouTube content providers whom I respect and have followed since the very early days - Into the Blue and Simhanger Flight Simulations. Their theme was similar - declining interest in their channels and a wearyness with trying to work on a daily basis with the challenges of MSFS2024. IMHO these guys are not from the usual "click bait / like-chasing" content breed - they take their time on producing high quality, well researched, informative and professionally presented videos. Hopefully both chaps will get their respective "mo-jo's" back and carry on but I do think that the flawed launch and subsequent failure by Microsoft / ASOBO to sort out MSFS2024 has had a much wider and deeper impact on the hobby than we could possible have imagined when the 2024 sim was first mooted.
 
I've never watched any of those content providers videos, I just don't see the point. On the few occasions I've tried to watch one I found it too long-winded and irritating to finally tell me something I already knew, because I get all my info on the sim from forums like this one.
I'm quite happy with MSFS2024, I'll be even happier when AI Traffic and ATC have had a radical overhaul or two. I hope SU3 fixes compatibility for all VR and peripherals such as control panels etc., which should have been there from day one.
 
I've never watched any of those content providers videos, I just don't see the point. On the few occasions I've tried to watch one I found it too long-winded and irritating to finally tell me something I already knew, because I get all my info on the sim from forums like this one.
I'm quite happy with MSFS2024, I'll be even happier when AI Traffic and ATC have had a radical overhaul or two. I hope SU3 fixes compatibility for all VR and peripherals such as control panels etc., which should have been there from day one.
I agree with you for the most part tiger. I've tried to watch some of the videos, however I can rarely keep up with them because in most cases, they talk to fast and go through instructions as if they are in a race with time. This forum is the only one participate in any more, where I get mst of the necessary info. Most of the others spend to much time running down things and developers they don't like, rather than saying anything positive. I usually just won't post if I disagree.
I, myself, am extremely disappointed with MSFS2024, mainly because of the constant crashes and required uninstalls/reinstalls just to enjoy a simple sightseeing flight around my neighborhood. If I do not install anything not in the initial download, it works. If I install one item that I own from the marketplace, the sim refuses to complete loading, crashing within 15 second with the seemingly most common error code, which the fix has not been found for, yet. Sorry, I don't have it written down in front of me.
Like you, the money I spent before hand on peripherals that no longer work, and this rig specifically built for MSFS2024, have all but totally killed my desire to even fly the sim anymore. :cry:
 
I think the point you make at the end there Don is a good one and chimes with what the two YouTube gentlemen I mentioned are saying.

Yes for sure there are many users out there that seem to be having a good experience with 2024. However, there is no doubt that many folk (including some in my sphere of friends around the World) who like me just cannot make it work properly.

However, I didn't pop over from the excellent SOH 2020 forum to get into the 2020 v 2024 discussion or to bash 2024. The original post was merely to alert people on here to a phenomenon that I am seeing in Social Media. Now it may be that members on here have no interest or ascribe no value to the Flight Sim You-Tube content which is fine but it is nevertheless a meaningful barometer of what is happening in the hobby. After all Into-the-Blue has 62,000 subscribers and SimHanger 72,000 subscribers which I believe would represent roughly $27m in sales to Jorge assuming they all owned a full copy of the sim?

I very much value the SOH forum and it certainly provides heaps of rapid response answers and ideas! However, I do like the ability to watch the detailed reviews of new aircraft done by these guys and others. Yes you can argue that they are too detailed, too long or the presenters have an annoying style of delivery but it's pretty easy to sort through to the specific aspect that one wants to learn about. For example, Jonathan Beckett's crisp tutorials on subjects like avionics and navigation are also excellent for those of us that just don't have the knowledge or the time to plough through manuals.

The massive build up to the launch of 2024 created a huge wave of excitement and expectation in the hobby all of which I think even Jorge has acknowledged remains largely unfulfilled even 9 months later. This has resulted, as Don says, in a killing of the desire of many to fire up the sim of an evening. Hence the fact that these specialist channels are seeing a huge fall off in interest and they themselves are struggling to actually use the 2024 sim in their content making, particularly in areas like live streaming.
 
I think the point you make at the end there Don is a good one and chimes with what the two YouTube gentlemen I mentioned are saying.

Yes for sure there are many users out there that seem to be having a good experience with 2024. However, there is no doubt that many folk (including some in my sphere of friends around the World) who like me just cannot make it work properly.

However, I didn't pop over from the excellent SOH 2020 forum to get into the 2020 v 2024 discussion or to bash 2024. The original post was merely to alert people on here to a phenomenon that I am seeing in Social Media. Now it may be that members on here have no interest or ascribe no value to the Flight Sim You-Tube content which is fine but it is nevertheless a meaningful barometer of what is happening in the hobby. After all Into-the-Blue has 62,000 subscribers and SimHanger 72,000 subscribers which I believe would represent roughly $27m in sales to Jorge assuming they all owned a full copy of the sim?

I very much value the SOH forum and it certainly provides heaps of rapid response answers and ideas! However, I do like the ability to watch the detailed reviews of new aircraft done by these guys and others. Yes you can argue that they are too detailed, too long or the presenters have an annoying style of delivery but it's pretty easy to sort through to the specific aspect that one wants to learn about. For example, Jonathan Beckett's crisp tutorials on subjects like avionics and navigation are also excellent for those of us that just don't have the knowledge or the time to plough through manuals.

The massive build up to the launch of 2024 created a huge wave of excitement and expectation in the hobby all of which I think even Jorge has acknowledged remains largely unfulfilled even 9 months later. This has resulted, as Don says, in a killing of the desire of many to fire up the sim of an evening. Hence the fact that these specialist channels are seeing a huge fall off in interest and they themselves are struggling to actually use the 2024 sim in their content making, particularly in areas like live streaming.
Allow me to summarize: M$ succeeded in destroying something that started out so nice. 2020 was not without issues, but they should have updated it with the new technology and kept their mits of the controls assignments. The streaming also was such a bad idea.

Just MHO.

Priller
 
I think the point you make at the end there Don is a good one and chimes with what the two YouTube gentlemen I mentioned are saying.

Yes for sure there are many users out there that seem to be having a good experience with 2024. However, there is no doubt that many folk (including some in my sphere of friends around the World) who like me just cannot make it work properly.

However, I didn't pop over from the excellent SOH 2020 forum to get into the 2020 v 2024 discussion or to bash 2024. The original post was merely to alert people on here to a phenomenon that I am seeing in Social Media. Now it may be that members on here have no interest or ascribe no value to the Flight Sim You-Tube content which is fine but it is nevertheless a meaningful barometer of what is happening in the hobby. After all Into-the-Blue has 62,000 subscribers and SimHanger 72,000 subscribers which I believe would represent roughly $27m in sales to Jorge assuming they all owned a full copy of the sim?

I very much value the SOH forum and it certainly provides heaps of rapid response answers and ideas! However, I do like the ability to watch the detailed reviews of new aircraft done by these guys and others. Yes you can argue that they are too detailed, too long or the presenters have an annoying style of delivery but it's pretty easy to sort through to the specific aspect that one wants to learn about. For example, Jonathan Beckett's crisp tutorials on subjects like avionics and navigation are also excellent for those of us that just don't have the knowledge or the time to plough through manuals.

The massive build up to the launch of 2024 created a huge wave of excitement and expectation in the hobby all of which I think even Jorge has acknowledged remains largely unfulfilled even 9 months later. This has resulted, as Don says, in a killing of the desire of many to fire up the sim of an evening. Hence the fact that these specialist channels are seeing a huge fall off in interest and they themselves are struggling to actually use the 2024 sim in their content making, particularly in areas like live streaming.
Collensr, sorry if I sounded like I was downtalking any of the reviewers on YouTube. I had no intention of doing so. I was more agreeing with tiger1962 abot not using them to a great degree "myself" for the reasons given, not as a down mark but as a personal choice. I do marvel at what most of them are able to get to work, and show off. I just meant that because of the language/accent differences, I can not keep up with most of them, which is NOT their fault, it is mine. I do like to watch some of them when introducing new aircraft, and scenery, etc.

I could go back to 2020, as I still have all my purchases and free items on a storage HDD connected to my system, which keeps everything up-to-date. However, once I flew in 2024, even with it's problems, I somehow did not enjoy 2020. Not running anyone down who does still enjoy it! I still have FSX and all the P3D versions, and all planes and sceneries, but they seem like toys or cartoons to me now. Just the way my mind works, nothing against anyone. I did thoroughly enjoy them before each new version came out, but I just never enjoyed going backwards, it's just the way my mind works. I guess it's because by nature I'm a "jack of all trades, master of none."


Priller, excellent summarization.
 
Maybe I am lucky, I have had very little trouble with 2024...that is since the massive SU2 update. Things have been going so well (knock on wood) that I deleted 2020 last week. Like Don, to me 2024 visually is head and shoulders above 2020. Now, I only use Free Flight. So, if there are issues with other parts of 2024, I am not aware.

I prefer written text over videos. I am not much of a YouTube or TV watcher. On somethings I have to watch a YouTube vid because it isn't in a written form. On those occasions, I use a downloader program that strips the ads and saves the video to my computer where I can peruse it at my leisure.

Like Collensr, I value SOH. It is the one flight sim forum I visit daily. However, I sense a drop in member participation that concerns me. Maybe it is just the issues with MSFS, but I remember when it was far more vibrant.
 
With all the problems with 2024, I decided to take a break, and am back in American Truck Simulator. It is both extremely relaxing and just as highly detailed as flight simulation. Very enjoyable change for a bit......NC
 
Personally, I like FS2024, ok, it's not perfect, but I don't believe any flight simulator is. Sadly, it was not well-received from day one, and as they say, "mud sticks." However, when you consider what the sim achieves, it's a pretty impressive piece of work.
 
Like Collensr, I value SOH. It is the one flight sim forum I visit daily. However, I sense a drop in member participation that concerns me. Maybe it is just the issues with MSFS, but I remember when it was far more vibrant.
I'm afraid you're not wrong. The most vibrant part of SOH seems to be the Cantina.

The other day I was wondering if there's anything we as staff could do better.

Priller
 
The other day I was wondering if there's anything we as staff could do better.

I for one would probably post more sim screenshots if I could - here's the thing:

I have my monitor (and MSFS2024) set up in HDR, and when I take screenshots with the Xbox Game Overlay (Win+Alt+Print Screen) it creates a perfect shot in .jxr format, and a bleached-out one in .jpg format.
The .jxr (JPEG Extended Range) format isn't recognised by SOH so I can't upload them to the screenshot thread.
Would it be possible to add .jxr format as a valid file type?
 
I for one would probably post more sim screenshots if I could - here's the thing:

I have my monitor (and MSFS2024) set up in HDR, and when I take screenshots with the Xbox Game Overlay (Win+Alt+Print Screen) it creates a perfect shot in .jxr format, and a bleached-out one in .jpg format.
The .jxr (JPEG Extended Range) format isn't recognised by SOH so I can't upload them to the screenshot thread.
Would it be possible to add .jxr format as a valid file type?
You could try Irfanview to convert your screenshot from jxr to jpg. It's free and it apparently recognises jxr-files.
 
You could try Irfanview to convert your screenshot from jxr to jpg. It's free and it apparently recognises jxr-files.

I've tried every image app which claims to recognise .jxr files, even some online converters, and they all convert .jxr images to bleached-out .jpg, .tif and .png images.
 
One thing to keep in mind on the YouTubers, though, is that burnout is a real issue for folks doing that kind of work no matter what they're covering. To monetize YouTube, you have to keep engagement at a high level, which means they have to create a steady stream of content (no matter how much "newsworthy" stuff there really is) which is a lot of work writing, recording, editing, etc. At the pace they have to go, frustration can build up even if you're covering Free Beer Day at the Bikini Show.

SU3 beta was a total fustercluck early on, but at this point, the sim is finally starting to show its promise; most 2020 content is working well now, and on my system at least the performance is dramatically more consistent than 2020. (No more microstutters, better frame rates, etc.) And the added terrain detail is wonderful since I do a lot of bush flying.
 
I'm afraid you're not wrong. The most vibrant part of SOH seems to be the Cantina.

The other day I was wondering if there's anything we as staff could do better.

Priller
I have a few thoughts as to the lack of participation, unfortunately they are no easy fixes for them. I don't know when I first started posting here but it has to have been twenty-five years ago. SOH was started by guys who were into content creation FS204, FS98, and earlier versions of MSFS. Back then all content created was freely offered to all, hence the Library. Some of those gentlemen later formed companies to create content and started charging a nominal fee. I can remember paying $5.00 for my first airplane from AlphaSim.

In the early days, SOH was the place to come to learn and share ideas. Everyone helped each other. It was a true community. Besides the content creators, people like me who didn't create but enjoyed the fellowship and knowledge shared, begin to frequent SOH. Many of us helped out by volunteering. I did a stent as a moderator. Since I traveled a lot back then, I even met several of the members. We were all friends.

However, when the content started shifting from free to paid, expectations became higher. Also FSX came on the scene and an influx of younger newer simmers begin to join. The community became more diverse with the non-content creators becoming a majority. As prices climbed people complained if the model didn't meet their expectations. They complained here directly to the creators.

Where as most of these guys were self taught and didn't have the resources to troubleshoot problems created by FSX and their lack of knowledge how FSX worked, as MS was slow on providing a comprehensive SKD (anybody seeing a pattern here). The people who were paying often didn't afford much sympathy. Their constant harping slowly drove the content creators away. Unfortunately, this trend has continued to this day. Last year we saw the departure of Dean of DCDesigns and just recently GAS throwing in the towel. While I can't say for certain that the product complaints had anything to do with GAS's leaving the industry, I suspect it was a factor.

Also, I believe is that we are mostly military and GA aircraft fans. The money is in the tube-liners. Look at all the upcoming aircraft being highlighted, every version of Airbus and Boeing. Some are being made by two and three different companies. Same for airports. I think every airport builder has their version of LAX, MIA, or ALT. I would love to see someone build my local airport here in Lafayette. We are a community of 250,000 people, when you include all the sub-burbs and outlining towns. But our airport with it brand new terminal is crying for some creator's love.

Another factor, in my opinion is X-Box. To most of us at SOH flight simming is a hobby. We dump big money on massive computers and peripherals. All to feed our hobby. Not so for most X-Boxers. For them MSFS is a game. One among many. They are gamesters. They are the new generation and they aren't coming to chew the fat here with us old-timers.

Microsoft is obviously trying to get rid of 3rd party content creators by more and more "encouraging" them to sell through Marketplace. It is more money for M$ (as Priller likes to call them) but less selection for us consumers. AND the content creator is somewhat protected. They can and do blame M$. We are at Microsoft's and their spreadsheets mercy.

That is my take on the problems. Let's see if we as a community can put our heads together and generate some ideas on how we can make our Flight Sim home once again vibrant and lively.
 
With all the problems with 2024, I decided to take a break, and am back in American Truck Simulator. It is both extremely relaxing and just as highly detailed as flight simulation. Very enjoyable change for a bit......NC
I'm afraid I'm with you Chief. My home state of Iowa was just released today, so I'm going to explore. Only trouble is, my town is not depicted, even though one of the main roads they feature goes right through it. :mad:

As for MSFS2024, and it's problems on my rig, as I've mentioned before, I only get to fly for a few minutes, before the aircraft loses power and crashes. This has been since SU2. That's IF the sim even loads. This happens regardless of what aircraft I'm attempting to fly. I still cannot put anything in my community folder, without causing the sim to not load, crashing within 15 seconds of starting the sim. I tried uninstalling/reinstalling, again, and then all this past week of just starting the sim. Empty community folder, default install. It would start, I would go into free flight, and maybe start a flight, if I didn't just back out to desktop. I would just walk around and then enter aircraft, either the C-150 or the new Piper Dakota. Not even try to start them. I would back out to desktop, and try to start again the next day. It crashed on loading last evening. The exact same error I have been getting since purchasing the sim. Error code 0x0000005.

As has been noted, I do enjoy coming to SoH for the info, screenshots and the overall friendly atmosphere we have here. Even if I'm not flying, I still check in daily.
 
I have a few thoughts as to the lack of participation, unfortunately they are no easy fixes for them. I don't know when I first started posting here but it has to have been twenty-five years ago. SOH was started by guys who were into content creation FS204, FS98, and earlier versions of MSFS. Back then all content created was freely offered to all, hence the Library. Some of those gentlemen later formed companies to create content and started charging a nominal fee. I can remember paying $5.00 for my first airplane from AlphaSim.

In the early days, SOH was the place to come to learn and share ideas. Everyone helped each other. It was a true community. Besides the content creators, people like me who didn't create but enjoyed the fellowship and knowledge shared, begin to frequent SOH. Many of us helped out by volunteering. I did a stent as a moderator. Since I traveled a lot back then, I even met several of the members. We were all friends.

However, when the content started shifting from free to paid, expectations became higher. Also FSX came on the scene and an influx of younger newer simmers begin to join. The community became more diverse with the non-content creators becoming a majority. As prices climbed people complained if the model didn't meet their expectations. They complained here directly to the creators.

Where as most of these guys were self taught and didn't have the resources to troubleshoot problems created by FSX and their lack of knowledge how FSX worked, as MS was slow on providing a comprehensive SKD (anybody seeing a pattern here). The people who were paying often didn't afford much sympathy. Their constant harping slowly drove the content creators away. Unfortunately, this trend has continued to this day. Last year we saw the departure of Dean of DCDesigns and just recently GAS throwing in the towel. While I can't say for certain that the product complaints had anything to do with GAS's leaving the industry, I suspect it was a factor.

Also, I believe is that we are mostly military and GA aircraft fans. The money is in the tube-liners. Look at all the upcoming aircraft being highlighted, every version of Airbus and Boeing. Some are being made by two and three different companies. Same for airports. I think every airport builder has their version of LAX, MIA, or ALT. I would love to see someone build my local airport here in Lafayette. We are a community of 250,000 people, when you include all the sub-burbs and outlining towns. But our airport with it brand new terminal is crying for some creator's love.

Another factor, in my opinion is X-Box. To most of us at SOH flight simming is a hobby. We dump big money on massive computers and peripherals. All to feed our hobby. Not so for most X-Boxers. For them MSFS is a game. One among many. They are gamesters. They are the new generation and they aren't coming to chew the fat here with us old-timers.

Microsoft is obviously trying to get rid of 3rd party content creators by more and more "encouraging" them to sell through Marketplace. It is more money for M$ (as Priller likes to call them) but less selection for us consumers. AND the content creator is somewhat protected. They can and do blame M$. We are at Microsoft's and their spreadsheets mercy.

That is my take on the problems. Let's see if we as a community can put our heads together and generate some ideas on how we can make our Flight Sim home once again vibrant and lively.
I think you hit the nail on the head here, John. I found SoH back in the FS98 days, after spending time on Avsim and Flightsim.com. I was not into the tubeliners either, and that was all they talked. Then it started getting nasty, and I think they still can be. They don't like newbs or just "fun" fliers. Over here I found the kind of aircraft I liked, warbirds and GA. And after just lurking for a few months, I finally started joining in the conversations. I'm a fairly shy person in person, till I get to know someone. On here, we talk to each other as if we live in the same neighborhood. I like that.

I think Facebook is also part of what has diminished the participation of some of the developers, also. They can reach a larger audience without having to post on numerous sites, and they can just ignore the problem posters, if not outright ban them. And these gamer "kids," the teens through the late twenty somethings who think the world owes them, just for existing, can get very obnoxious.

I still talk to Lionheart on his personal website, and mention how we miss him here. He always declines because of the bad taste from years back. Pretty much the same for RazBam, Phil from Alphasim/Virtavia, and many others. How do we fix that?
 
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