A-20 Havoc FSX Native

[Milton Shupe]

I should have the "G" model FSX native conversion done today and make it available to you by the tomorrow. This one went pretty smoothly.

A few more texture and animation/tooltip tweaks, bumps and spec maps, and she should be ready.

 

[Roger]

Good news Milton I want to try some of Huub's G model repaints

 

[Milton Shupe]

Good news Milton I want to try some of Huub's G model repaints

Me too Roger but I have to finish everything up first. :-/

Here are the liveries we will release with the "G" model. LittleJoe and Hilda_Shane, plus some base livery colors.

 

[Ferry_vO]

As explained above in Post # 34 announcing the "pre-beta" release and in the docs I think, the manual start procedure does not work in FSX/P3D, only FS9. You will need to use auto-start.

Maybe I should have mentioned control+E doesn't work for me either.. Only the left engine starts, smokes a lot, runs for about 5 seconds then shuts down again.

I've tried selecting just the fuel tank, tried cross feed on/off, throttle open/closed, automixture on/off... Nothing works for me.

 

[Roger]

I had the same problem Ferry. I had to boot up to a default plane (engine started) and then with A-20 selected, turn both fuel tanks on, left main and right main, then Ctrl and E.

 

[Milton Shupe]

Maybe I should have mentioned control+E doesn't work for me either.. Only the left engine starts, smokes a lot, runs for about 5 seconds then shuts down again.

I've tried selecting just the fuel tank, tried cross feed on/off, throttle open/closed, automixture on/off... Nothing works for me.

Hmmm, will look into that ; my apologies Sir.

EDIT: The only thing I can determine is the obvious lack of Fuel Boost Pumps. I will add them; maybe that will cure the issue.

Also, for those who asked, there is no avionics switch for this aircraft. Electrical controls were in the nacelle tails and generator switches and breakers were in the rear gunners area electrical panel.

 

[Milton Shupe]

I got my eyes crossed when writing general operational stuff in teh installation and read me docs.

Here's what it should have read:

Takeoff: 50% flaps are required for heavily loaded takeoff. Set elevator trim to 5 degrees up; otherwise no flaps required for normal loads with appropriate take off distance.
Takeoff power: 52"/2600 RPMs
Climbout: 47" Map, 2400 RPMs
Normal Cruise: 34.5" Map, 2100 RPMs (varies with altitude)
Econo-Cruise: 30" Map, 1700 RPMs

 

[jandjfrench]

Hi,
I'm having no problems using autostart. In the FSX Fuel and Payload Menu I made sure I had fuel; just about full tanks. I wasn't sure how to handle the overweight situation so I edited "External1" to have zero gallons. After verifying the fuel, I gave a single left click on each of the 4 red controls on the fuel panel on the cockpit left wall and initiated autostart. Neither the lettering nor tooltips on the fuel controls was very helpful. The plane seems to lift off at a reasonable distance with minimum flaps and about +2.0 degrees of pitch. I've been testing at KEDW so maybe not a good test. Full crew, no munitions.
Off track but could someone let me know where I can find the Russian texture?
Jim F.

 

[BendyFlyer]

I got my eyes crossed when writing general operational stuff in teh installation and read me docs.

Here's what it should have read:

Takeoff: 50% flaps are required for heavily loaded takeoff. Set elevator trim to 5 degrees up; otherwise no flaps required for normal loads with appropriate take off distance.
Takeoff power: 52"/2600 RPMs
Climbout: 47" Map, 2400 RPMs
Normal Cruise: 34.5" Map, 2100 RPMs (varies with altitude)
Econo-Cruise: 30" Map, 1700 RPMs

Thats better I would agree with that having found a performance chart. FWIW the reduced setting needed about 12 degrees of pitch to hold level above 5000 ft and climb was impossible.

Anyhow, Milton, the README stated that the LoadOut panel would come up when the aircraft starts up, it does not do this for me but is easily selectable via SHIFT+5. It seems most of it is working but I am confused about the weight issue. At the load up or start weight the aircraft is 4000lbs below its MGW so it should perform well and it does to a point but runs out of puff at its critical altitude about 8000 ft then will climb but only at 42"MP until about 15000 ft then that is it on my machine, that is the performance I would expect of a normally aspirated engine not a two stage supercharged one which would merely require a blower shift at about 12 to 14000 ft to keep the MP and the climb, the Havoc had a very respectable max ceiling of about F250. No change re the cylinder head temps they remain very cool from my perspective even a long hard climb does not shove them below the green minimums, cowls closed or cowls trailing. Is the hydraulic pressure to be modelled or factored in? I also had some issues with the mag switches, they indicate with the mouse but I cannot get them to go in any direction to do a mag check the prop levers work fine.

50% flap is two stages it seems.

No avionics switch, no problems thats what the radio operator is for, as long as they have battery power or generator power.

Yep and be careful with the cowl flap levers, selecting the left one it is easy to get the bomb bay doors open (made that mistake several times).

Still quite useable and fun and the updates when ever will just make it even better. Really enjoying this one as they said a real pilots aeroplane. Yep and it need a dose or right rudder trim on the climb just like a real aeroplane does with non counter-rotating props.

 

[PhantomTweak]

Just a thought, since I get so few:
If your default flight is a cold-n-dark, before you start, or try to start, do you hit ctrl+shft+F4? A lot of the time the fuel is cut-off/mixture fully lean (shut down), preventing it from starting. It can be very un-obvious, but can give you fits trying to start a plane, especially a different one than the default FSX Trike thingy.

Pat☺

 

[AussieMan]

Milton, hate to be a nit picker but the blue in the roundels on DU-P appear to be too blue. I use the following set:

ROUNDEL BLUE: Red: 67 Green: 74 Blue: 114 HTML: #434a72

 

[Milton Shupe]

Just a thought, since I get so few:
If your default flight is a cold-n-dark, before you start, or try to start, do you hit ctrl+shft+F4? A lot of the time the fuel is cut-off/mixture fully lean (shut down), preventing it from starting. It can be very un-obvious, but can give you fits trying to start a plane, especially a different one than the default FSX Trike thingy.

Pat☺

The proper procedure is:

ctrl+shft+F4 (Mixture Full Rich), then
ctrl+F4 (Propeller (High RPM), then
cntrl+e (Autostart)

 

[Milton Shupe]

Milton, hate to be a nit picker but the blue in the roundels on DU-P appear to be too blue. I use the following set:

ROUNDEL BLUE: Red: 67 Green: 74 Blue: 114 HTML: #434a72

Thanks, I'll pass this on to Wellis.

 

[Milton Shupe]

Thats better I would agree with that having found a performance chart. FWIW the reduced setting needed about 12 degrees of pitch to hold level above 5000 ft and climb was impossible.

Anyhow, Milton, the README stated that the LoadOut panel would come up when the aircraft starts up, it does not do this for me but is easily selectable via SHIFT+5. It seems most of it is working but I am confused about the weight issue. At the load up or start weight the aircraft is 4000lbs below its MGW so it should perform well and it does to a point but runs out of puff at its critical altitude about 8000 ft then will climb but only at 42"MP until about 15000 ft then that is it on my machine, that is the performance I would expect of a normally aspirated engine not a two stage supercharged one which would merely require a blower shift at about 12 to 14000 ft to keep the MP and the climb, the Havoc had a very respectable max ceiling of about F250. No change re the cylinder head temps they remain very cool from my perspective even a long hard climb does not shove them below the green minimums, cowls closed or cowls trailing. Is the hydraulic pressure to be modelled or factored in? I also had some issues with the mag switches, they indicate with the mouse but I cannot get them to go in any direction to do a mag check the prop levers work fine.

50% flap is two stages it seems.

No avionics switch, no problems thats what the radio operator is for, as long as they have battery power or generator power.

Yep and be careful with the cowl flap levers, selecting the left one it is easy to get the bomb bay doors open (made that mistake several times).

Still quite useable and fun and the updates when ever will just make it even better. Really enjoying this one as they said a real pilots aeroplane. Yep and it need a dose or right rudder trim on the climb just like a real aeroplane does with non counter-rotating props.

BF,

I do not see your performance issues at all. Just climbed to the service ceiling with no problems.

Once settled after take off, I set 47" MAP and 2400 RPMs. This held all the way to 15400', the stated critical altitude (that handles the blower shift to high).

Map fell off slowly as expected (after 15400') all the way to FL254 and RPMs held at 2400.
I adjusted trim one click up at FL230.

Speeds were maintained most of the way.

Take off weight was 19000lbs with full internal tanks. (will retest with 24000 lbs)

See attached.

I agree and will adjust oil temps to be more realistic.

Climb speed minimum per the book is 160kias / 140mph.

 

[Milton Shupe]

Okay BF, re-ran the flight test to FL254 service ceiling, this time in FS9 as I no longer have the load out sheet in FSX. Performance is tuned for each sim.

Results nearly identical in FS9 at 24000+ lbs.

Climbout was done at 47" MAP, 2400 RPMs.

Map held steady to 15400 critical altitude simulating the 2-stage blower, then slowly decreased per 1000' to FL254 ending at about 32" (the boundary for blower shift).

Climb speed held well as Map decreased, and attitude decreased to compensate.
Climbout speed held around 185kias.

All in all, no issues climbing to service level where 100fpm is sustained at the settings stated.

So, not sure what we are doing differently here.

Here's a screen shot I took at FL254.

 

[huub vink]

Good news Milton I want to try some of Huub's G model repaints

Once the pre-beta G model is released, I will upload them in 2048 x 2048 format as well.

Cheers,
Huub

 

[Roger]

Excellent! Thanks Huub.

 

[wellis]

Milton, hate to be a nit picker but the blue in the roundels on DU-P appear to be too blue. I use the following set:

ROUNDEL BLUE: Red: 67 Green: 74 Blue: 114 HTML: #434a72

Thanks, I'll pass this on to Wellis. Milton Shupe....

Pat and Milton,

Well, we can't have that.... Pat, will adjust to the color values you provided sir. Thanks

 

[Milton Shupe]

Status update:

1) Just completed the A-20G model conversion to FSX native (see screen shot)

2) Load Out screen: I know many of you like this and want to keep it, but it has issues in FSX/P3D and the author is not around to support it. I therefore have chosen to eliminate it and all its functions. I have no choice. The programming is embedded in the model and custom XML, the gauges (some are .gau and 32 bit dll's), the flight model (weights and distribution, model recognition, crew handling, tank drops, munitions selections with weights, etc), the sounds, and the sim interfaces, etc. Taking it out is a non-trivial task and will require significant time and effort. I will provide additional models to have several aircraft configuration options. Removing it also means the flight model needs to be revisited. Weights will be general rather than crew, tank, and munitions specific.

3) The FS9 side works well albeit some issues remain.

4) I am proceeding on the "No Load Out Path" with model updates and conversions of the G and P-70A1 and A2.

5) I am looking at a P3D v4 package as a possibility but that may/may not happen.

Sorry to have to do this but the author of the Load Out leaves me with no other option.

 

[DaveWG]

Great work on this Milton.
Have you considered using XMLTools for the payload & fuel loadouts? It has both FSX & P3d versions, including P3dv4.