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The Staff of SOH
Gauges for Combat Flight Simulator
- Thread starter Ivan
- Start date
ah, yes, Guy, i remember now.
the good old Dam Buster Lancaster.
many fond hours were spent in that baby.
after searching through my archives,
i, finally, found it.
oddly enough, i can see where
the lanc_mag_1234 and lanc_start_1,2,3,4
gauges came from that i found in my gauge folder.
these are the basic multi engine start up
and shut down gauges i want.
unfortunately, the magneto switches do not work properly.
i won't go into all that's wrong with them, but,
suffice to say, the switching is backasswards.
i am well aware that beggars can't be choosers,
so, in the mean time, i'll make do with what i have.
the good old Dam Buster Lancaster.
many fond hours were spent in that baby.
after searching through my archives,
i, finally, found it.
oddly enough, i can see where
the lanc_mag_1234 and lanc_start_1,2,3,4
gauges came from that i found in my gauge folder.
these are the basic multi engine start up
and shut down gauges i want.
unfortunately, the magneto switches do not work properly.
i won't go into all that's wrong with them, but,
suffice to say, the switching is backasswards.
i am well aware that beggars can't be choosers,
so, in the mean time, i'll make do with what i have.
Hi Smilo,
If you had your way, would it be multiple copies of the stock Hurricane Mk.I Magneto Switches or would it be a gauge that looked like something else?
So far, both Twins that I am working on are US manufacture and have a combined gauge that controls each engine with a separate switch and a master on-off switch. The attached image gives a better idea than my poor description.
If I was able to program a magneto switch gauge, this is what I would be going for first.
A pair would take care of 4 engines.
- Ivan.
If you had your way, would it be multiple copies of the stock Hurricane Mk.I Magneto Switches or would it be a gauge that looked like something else?
So far, both Twins that I am working on are US manufacture and have a combined gauge that controls each engine with a separate switch and a master on-off switch. The attached image gives a better idea than my poor description.
If I was able to program a magneto switch gauge, this is what I would be going for first.
A pair would take care of 4 engines.
- Ivan.
Attachments
i suggested multiple hurricane switches
because i like the straight forward design
and i mistakenly thought multiples might be easy to produce.
of course, i was wrong.
i've never seen the A.C. TYPE B-5 before and have to admit
i would happily take a couple in a heartbeat.
because i like the straight forward design
and i mistakenly thought multiples might be easy to produce.
of course, i was wrong.
i've never seen the A.C. TYPE B-5 before and have to admit
i would happily take a couple in a heartbeat.
Actually you were right, Smilo.
Multiple simple identical gauges is much easier to program than a more integrated single gauge.
The problem for me is that the gauge used by USAAF and presumably USN multi engine types was the one in the photograph or something very similar made by a different manufacturer. Anything I build if and when I can will be by KPWGAU rather than the A.C. Delco Company as in the photograph.
If I can get the mouse stuff working, I should probably try multiple Hurricane Magnetos first. It is a whole lot simpler.
I was playing with it last night and basically it only has two mouse areas to deal with and both are just toggles for on and off.
The B-5 gauge has at least six mouse areas for the three switches that are on each gauge and some of them interact with both engines.
- Ivan.
Multiple simple identical gauges is much easier to program than a more integrated single gauge.
The problem for me is that the gauge used by USAAF and presumably USN multi engine types was the one in the photograph or something very similar made by a different manufacturer. Anything I build if and when I can will be by KPWGAU rather than the A.C. Delco Company as in the photograph.
If I can get the mouse stuff working, I should probably try multiple Hurricane Magnetos first. It is a whole lot simpler.
I was playing with it last night and basically it only has two mouse areas to deal with and both are just toggles for on and off.
The B-5 gauge has at least six mouse areas for the three switches that are on each gauge and some of them interact with both engines.
- Ivan.
Hello Smilo,
Actually not four but two because each Magneto only has one mouse area.
It works to toggle from whatever it currently is to the opposite setting.
There isn't an on or off spot, just a "flip" spot.
I was a bit surprised too, but no matter where you click on that side, it just flips that switch to the opposite setting.
By the way, I don't know for sure how the center On-Off switch on the B-5 gauge works, but that is how I plan on programming it until I find out otherwise. If I find out first, I will probably forget by the time I actually get a gauge mostly programmed.
- Ivan.
Actually not four but two because each Magneto only has one mouse area.
It works to toggle from whatever it currently is to the opposite setting.
There isn't an on or off spot, just a "flip" spot.
I was a bit surprised too, but no matter where you click on that side, it just flips that switch to the opposite setting.
By the way, I don't know for sure how the center On-Off switch on the B-5 gauge works, but that is how I plan on programming it until I find out otherwise. If I find out first, I will probably forget by the time I actually get a gauge mostly programmed.
- Ivan.
Gauges to Fit the Aeroplane
Hello Smilo,
Just out of curiosity, what aeroplane were you intending the Magneto Switches for?
I noticed your comment that the switches in the Lancaster were "A$$ Backwards" which I presume means that On is Down and Off is Up?
I did a quick search earlier today and found that this is actually correct operation at least for the Lancaster.
- Ivan.
Hello Smilo,
Just out of curiosity, what aeroplane were you intending the Magneto Switches for?
I noticed your comment that the switches in the Lancaster were "A$$ Backwards" which I presume means that On is Down and Off is Up?
I did a quick search earlier today and found that this is actually correct operation at least for the Lancaster.
- Ivan.
Odd Behaviour
Last night while doing some experimenting, I found out something rather amusing that I had not heard about before:
The Magneto Switch of the stock P51D Mustang is reversed!?!
Apparently the Right and Left Magnetos are switched!
This can be confirmed by checking against the stock Hurricane I or P47D Thunderbold Gauges.
Has anyone else noticed this before?
- Ivan.
Last night while doing some experimenting, I found out something rather amusing that I had not heard about before:
The Magneto Switch of the stock P51D Mustang is reversed!?!
Apparently the Right and Left Magnetos are switched!
This can be confirmed by checking against the stock Hurricane I or P47D Thunderbold Gauges.
Has anyone else noticed this before?
- Ivan.
Books and References
Hello Smilo
My Son and I just got back from the annual local IPMS Model Expo.
At the tail end of the show, I saw a book about British Aircraft Instrument Panels which would have been a great reference for this discussion.
Unfortunately everyone else was starting to pack up and we also wanted to catch a few other vendors before the end of the show.
(Folks usually start packing up about 2:30 even though the show is scheduled to 4:00 PM.)
I already have a book on Aircraft Cockpits, but many of the aircraft do not have a photograph showing where the ignition / magneto switches are.
- Ivan.
Hello Smilo
My Son and I just got back from the annual local IPMS Model Expo.
At the tail end of the show, I saw a book about British Aircraft Instrument Panels which would have been a great reference for this discussion.
Unfortunately everyone else was starting to pack up and we also wanted to catch a few other vendors before the end of the show.
(Folks usually start packing up about 2:30 even though the show is scheduled to 4:00 PM.)
I already have a book on Aircraft Cockpits, but many of the aircraft do not have a photograph showing where the ignition / magneto switches are.
- Ivan.
Late Status Update - LONG!!!
Hello All,
I had not mentioned this before because I really was not sure where it would lead but things are looking pretty promising at this point.
Back in late March, I posted a yet another comment / question about not being able to get the Mouse functions to work in CFS.
A little while later, I got a PM from a fellow called ChrisK who offered to help me figure out what was going on.
We needed first to get in sync.
I believe he was intending to teach me basic Gauge Programming while all I was really looking for was to get some kind of response from the Mouse. After all, that was the major roadblock to building anything else worthwhile.
The other part about getting in sync was that my goal is to have Gauges that work on everything as far back as Windows 98.
My Game Machine used for testing is a Windows 2000 box.
My interest is just in Combat Flight Simulator and Gauges NEED to work there.
ChrisK set up his own copy of CFS so we would have a comparable test environment.
We found out pretty early on that the newer compilers did not generate useable Gauges for the older Operating Systems.
The Gauges he compiled would work fine on his machine but although they would not crash my simulator, they would not display either.
Eventually he went back to a very old (circa 1996) compiler and his Gauges started showing up on my Test Panel.
The problem though is that although they would display, they did not react to the Mouse.
After a couple cycles of a hearing that a Gauge worked properly on his machine and then finding that it did not work on mine, I remembered something unexpected that I had encountered when working on the Trim Test Gauge a while back.
I wanted the Trim Test Gauge on its own Panel because it took up a lot of room at the side of the screen.
The problem was that when I first put it on a blank (all Black 0,0,0) background, it did not display at all.
I had also noticed that when leaving the simulator with the Test Panel being displayed, the Gauges that were not on some non-Black background would disappear first.
I edited the Panel Background to add a non-transparent, non-Black area behind his Gauge and the Mouse functions WORKED!
I then tested a stock Gauge by moving it to a transparent area of the Panel and its Mouse functions STOPPED working.
Next, I tried the same SDK Fuel Selector we had been testing but compiled on my computer this time and it also worked.
Note that in most of my screenshots of Gauge Tests, the new Gauge is set anywhere there is space on the screen which means that it is usually on a transparent area. The Gauges DISPLAY just fine anywhere on the screen. The Mouse functions needed to have some opaque background behind the Gauge in order to work.
So essentially what had been happening was that the compile SDK Gauges wore working just fine all along; I was just not using them correctly and had not figured this out for the better part of a year.
After this little discovery, ChrisK noted that the Gauges should respond to Mouse events no matter where they are located.
I went back to the Test Panel.cfg and started changing it to match one of the stock Panels.
Eventually I found that the Render_3D setting was the culprit.
Since then, I have been using ChrisK to answer questions about how to do things and where to find the information I need to understand how things work. He seems to be quite patient with what must appear to be fairly stupid questions and often provides a code fragment to illustrate the proper usage.
It isn't often that one runs into someone who knows a subject this well and ChrisK is certainly a master in this field.
- Ivan.
Hello All,
I had not mentioned this before because I really was not sure where it would lead but things are looking pretty promising at this point.
Back in late March, I posted a yet another comment / question about not being able to get the Mouse functions to work in CFS.
A little while later, I got a PM from a fellow called ChrisK who offered to help me figure out what was going on.
We needed first to get in sync.
I believe he was intending to teach me basic Gauge Programming while all I was really looking for was to get some kind of response from the Mouse. After all, that was the major roadblock to building anything else worthwhile.
The other part about getting in sync was that my goal is to have Gauges that work on everything as far back as Windows 98.
My Game Machine used for testing is a Windows 2000 box.
My interest is just in Combat Flight Simulator and Gauges NEED to work there.
ChrisK set up his own copy of CFS so we would have a comparable test environment.
We found out pretty early on that the newer compilers did not generate useable Gauges for the older Operating Systems.
The Gauges he compiled would work fine on his machine but although they would not crash my simulator, they would not display either.
Eventually he went back to a very old (circa 1996) compiler and his Gauges started showing up on my Test Panel.
The problem though is that although they would display, they did not react to the Mouse.
After a couple cycles of a hearing that a Gauge worked properly on his machine and then finding that it did not work on mine, I remembered something unexpected that I had encountered when working on the Trim Test Gauge a while back.
I wanted the Trim Test Gauge on its own Panel because it took up a lot of room at the side of the screen.
The problem was that when I first put it on a blank (all Black 0,0,0) background, it did not display at all.
I had also noticed that when leaving the simulator with the Test Panel being displayed, the Gauges that were not on some non-Black background would disappear first.
I edited the Panel Background to add a non-transparent, non-Black area behind his Gauge and the Mouse functions WORKED!
I then tested a stock Gauge by moving it to a transparent area of the Panel and its Mouse functions STOPPED working.
Next, I tried the same SDK Fuel Selector we had been testing but compiled on my computer this time and it also worked.
Note that in most of my screenshots of Gauge Tests, the new Gauge is set anywhere there is space on the screen which means that it is usually on a transparent area. The Gauges DISPLAY just fine anywhere on the screen. The Mouse functions needed to have some opaque background behind the Gauge in order to work.
So essentially what had been happening was that the compile SDK Gauges wore working just fine all along; I was just not using them correctly and had not figured this out for the better part of a year.
After this little discovery, ChrisK noted that the Gauges should respond to Mouse events no matter where they are located.
I went back to the Test Panel.cfg and started changing it to match one of the stock Panels.
Eventually I found that the Render_3D setting was the culprit.
Since then, I have been using ChrisK to answer questions about how to do things and where to find the information I need to understand how things work. He seems to be quite patient with what must appear to be fairly stupid questions and often provides a code fragment to illustrate the proper usage.
It isn't often that one runs into someone who knows a subject this well and ChrisK is certainly a master in this field.
- Ivan.
aleatorylamp
Charter Member
Hello Ivan,
Glad it´s starting to make sense! It sounds quite complicated, this issue with old
gauges and newer computers. There seem to be quite a few factors of influence.
I remember trying to make the mouse work on an old modified FSFSConv dual-throttle
gauge I had put on the main panel of the Martin A20 Baltimore.
It wouldn´t work because of the Render-3D setting, and Smilo pointed out the need
for an extra window with its own background bitmap and without the Render-3D setting,
to make it mouseable.
This would be in line with the problems you were having, only that in your case it was
more difficult to find the solution because it also involved actually compiling the gauges.
Cheers,
Aleatorylamp
Glad it´s starting to make sense! It sounds quite complicated, this issue with old
gauges and newer computers. There seem to be quite a few factors of influence.
I remember trying to make the mouse work on an old modified FSFSConv dual-throttle
gauge I had put on the main panel of the Martin A20 Baltimore.
It wouldn´t work because of the Render-3D setting, and Smilo pointed out the need
for an extra window with its own background bitmap and without the Render-3D setting,
to make it mouseable.
This would be in line with the problems you were having, only that in your case it was
more difficult to find the solution because it also involved actually compiling the gauges.
Cheers,
Aleatorylamp
aleatorylamp
Charter Member
WEP gauge?
Hello Ivan,
There is one thing I have always thought about:
There must be a CFS1 parameter accessible by a Gauge-making programme
that would enable a gauge programmer to programme a mousable WEP gauge.
Perhaps it could include a counter counter or timer to show the pilot how long
he´s got left before he ruins the 5-minute methanol-alcohol boost system - or
in the case of WEP option 3, cripples the engine to 50% of its power.
Cheers,
Aleatoyrlamp
Hello Ivan,
There is one thing I have always thought about:
There must be a CFS1 parameter accessible by a Gauge-making programme
that would enable a gauge programmer to programme a mousable WEP gauge.
Perhaps it could include a counter counter or timer to show the pilot how long
he´s got left before he ruins the 5-minute methanol-alcohol boost system - or
in the case of WEP option 3, cripples the engine to 50% of its power.
Cheers,
Aleatoyrlamp
aleatorylamp
Charter Member
Hello Ivan,
Yes, you´re right, thanks. I found the parameter called WepT - i.e. WEP Timer -
on the Beckwith panel. Types 1 and 2, Water Injection and Methanol-Water,
both appear to time out at 312 seconds, and WEP type 3, at 315 seconds.
So, looking at a boost gauge would be enough to see if WEP is on or off,
of course, although I was thinking about a light, and then a WEP timing gauge
would be practical. Anyway, it was just a thought.
Cheers,
Aleatorylamp
Yes, you´re right, thanks. I found the parameter called WepT - i.e. WEP Timer -
on the Beckwith panel. Types 1 and 2, Water Injection and Methanol-Water,
both appear to time out at 312 seconds, and WEP type 3, at 315 seconds.
So, looking at a boost gauge would be enough to see if WEP is on or off,
of course, although I was thinking about a light, and then a WEP timing gauge
would be practical. Anyway, it was just a thought.
Cheers,
Aleatorylamp
Hello Aleatorylamp,
The "WEP On" Indicator Gauge is such an easy thing to program (Famous last words) that I am sure someone has done it already.
I actually had my own ideas about a more intelligent WEP Duration / Indicator Gauge but there are a couple higher priorities at the moment.
I need a couple Twin / Multi Engine Gauges for the Lightning and Mitchell.
It also helps that those Gauges are in an area that I am trying to learn about at the moment.
- Ivan.
The "WEP On" Indicator Gauge is such an easy thing to program (Famous last words) that I am sure someone has done it already.
I actually had my own ideas about a more intelligent WEP Duration / Indicator Gauge but there are a couple higher priorities at the moment.
I need a couple Twin / Multi Engine Gauges for the Lightning and Mitchell.
It also helps that those Gauges are in an area that I am trying to learn about at the moment.
- Ivan.