gman5250
Charter Member
Will do. Thanks mate.
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The Staff of SOH
Offline for a few days...dead power supply
- Thread starter gman5250
- Start date
Will do. Thanks mate.
gman5250
Charter Member
Update:
I removed the battery, let the machine set for about a minute, replaced the batter, then pressed the start button. The machine tries to spin up the cooling fans, the red CPU LED lights up and the system shuts itself off after about one second. It will repeat by itself a number of times without me touching the start switch. At that point I turn off the PSU and unplug the main power cord to the PSU.
Good try though!
BendyFlyer
Charter Member
Laptop or tower unit Gman? This is a common problem with Dell stuff usually shows up after about a year or two. Identical symptoms to what you describe. There is a fix might be worth check out the net if and when you can re Dell PC failing to start. it is a hardware-software issue both. Sorry to say this but in end I surrendered and through the Dell in the bin. Not much comfort I know but if your surrounded by white stuff you might get some clues via the Dell fails to start or starts and shuts down problem.
gman5250
Charter Member
The unit is a StealthMachine tower...I've shown specs in my signature. The unit is four years old, and I do work it hard with the sim, Photoshop and 3D Studio, along with a ton of power hungry peripherals. I'm not surprised that it might be a used up CPU, in fact I have been aware that I am over the life expectancy for a while now.
If I buy a new CPU, it will be a six core with a bit more HP than my current which has served me very well. If it turns out that the CPU is not bad, it is not a loss because I can put the existing unit in my number two box, which is compatible.
I am working with limited resources, so I am trying to limit my diagnosis errors if I can. I really appreciate all of the help and suggestions from everyone. If it was a Harley, I could listen to it and tell you what is wrong but sadly I don't have that level of expertise in this particular area.
TuFun
Charter Member
Mine crapped out in Dec 2017 and was in limbo for a year. Wasn't sure I was going to build one and just hang out with nature instead. Well got me one of those 9000's series processors. Built a new computer with 9600k and very happy with it. Does what it suppose to do. With SSD's and Win10 Pro, I was amazed how fast it is.
Take care of your needs "G", that's the most important thing right now. You'll bounce back I'm sure! All the best "G"!
Take care of your needs "G", that's the most important thing right now. You'll bounce back I'm sure! All the best "G"!
gman5250
Charter Member
This is starting to remind me of a similar situation I had with my bike. We had built the motor and run it on the dyno...made 126 HP. Riding it back up the hill, the brand new motor went up in smoke. The green motor had blown out a chunk of roller tappet on the dyno...so...another couple of grand to fix the brand new motor.
A couple of thousand miles later the motor started running like the timing had fallen out, chugging, snorting and running between one and two barrels. It would come and go intermittently. It's an EFI motor with two computers and a pile of sensors. The Harley guys couldn't find anything on their computers, and the bike kept throwing codes...this sensor, that sensor, yada yada yada. I traced every foot of wiring on the bike and replaced every sensor and the injectors. Nothing fixed the problem and I spent a lot of money chasing ghosts.
The neighbor down the way was a career Toyota mechanic. I told him about the bike and he asked if it had a crank position sensor. It did. He told me to pull that sensor and have a look inside. The sensor is basically a tiny magnetic tube, but when I put a probe down inside I brought out a sliver of metal about the size of an eyelash. That sliver of metal had brought a $7000 stroker motor to it's knees.
Turns out that when the motor had blown the tappet, the piece about the size of a pinkie fingernail went through the oil pump and got ground to powder but, a tiny sliver made its way all the way through the oiling system and into the CPS, where it was grounding the crank timing...sometimes.
I found the tappet when I switched to the chain drive cams, S&S 106 barrel kit and limited travel lifters. I ended up splitting the case on this build and that's when I found the ground metal in the sump.
Point of the story
I don't have a way to diagnose any of the broken bits in the computer and there is no tech any where near me...so...I'm chasing a ghost in the machine...again. Looks like i'm going to have to take a hard look at a Gen8 or Gen9 CPU/MoBo, probably the Intel Core i7-9700K & ASUS ROG Strix Z390-E Gaming LGA 1151. That way I'll resolve the possibility of borked CPU, MoBo, or both.
That's a ton, but this box is four years old and rode hard, and I need to get back to work.
Opinions???
A couple of thousand miles later the motor started running like the timing had fallen out, chugging, snorting and running between one and two barrels. It would come and go intermittently. It's an EFI motor with two computers and a pile of sensors. The Harley guys couldn't find anything on their computers, and the bike kept throwing codes...this sensor, that sensor, yada yada yada. I traced every foot of wiring on the bike and replaced every sensor and the injectors. Nothing fixed the problem and I spent a lot of money chasing ghosts.
The neighbor down the way was a career Toyota mechanic. I told him about the bike and he asked if it had a crank position sensor. It did. He told me to pull that sensor and have a look inside. The sensor is basically a tiny magnetic tube, but when I put a probe down inside I brought out a sliver of metal about the size of an eyelash. That sliver of metal had brought a $7000 stroker motor to it's knees.
Turns out that when the motor had blown the tappet, the piece about the size of a pinkie fingernail went through the oil pump and got ground to powder but, a tiny sliver made its way all the way through the oiling system and into the CPS, where it was grounding the crank timing...sometimes.
I found the tappet when I switched to the chain drive cams, S&S 106 barrel kit and limited travel lifters. I ended up splitting the case on this build and that's when I found the ground metal in the sump.
Point of the story
I don't have a way to diagnose any of the broken bits in the computer and there is no tech any where near me...so...I'm chasing a ghost in the machine...again. Looks like i'm going to have to take a hard look at a Gen8 or Gen9 CPU/MoBo, probably the Intel Core i7-9700K & ASUS ROG Strix Z390-E Gaming LGA 1151. That way I'll resolve the possibility of borked CPU, MoBo, or both.
That's a ton, but this box is four years old and rode hard, and I need to get back to work.
Opinions???
BendyFlyer
Charter Member
GMAN, sorry I missed you had put your specs up. I went through my technical notes same issues apply for tower computers.
The description of what happens fits what is called a POST failure. That means it is failing the power on self start test sequence or POST. The causes can be one of the following; dodgy power supply, corrupted BIOS or shot system board. The fan starting and LEDs on indicates that it is getting power but failing the POST test (which all PC's do at the beginning when turned on), basically as the system powers up it checks connections and supply to all peripherals and hardware connected. The recommendation was to disconnect everything except the monitor, if it starts then there is a peripheral issue and therefore reconnecting the peripherals one by one and doing the start will identify which one is causing an issue, that is which ever bit it was that got you a failure. Could be the monitor as well. Essentially peripherals such as monitor etc can do this.
It is more than likely something deeper at the BIOS or system board level. Given your description of the leak, have you tried pulling out all the boards, memory etc that you can get to and using a spray cleaner drier to get rid of any residual moisture that may be lurking somewhere? This stuff you can get at electronic stores, given that it is so cold where you are, you may have just a few drops of residual water or liquid inside the board or connectors which are basically almost frozen and when they get heat liquify or cause a short out. I would try the clean and dry as a cheap first step. If still no go then I think the system board is possibly shot, never had a corrupted bios in my life time of playing with PCs.
After the dry try holding down the power on button for several seconds maybe 10 without the power from mains ON, this will discharge any capacitors that also may be carrying residual power and preventing a start. The reconnect the power and try again holding down for 2-5 secs and observe if it starts up properly . If however it indicates power, fans turn and some LEDS come on but then fails to go through normal start with monitor displaying something etc, then it is not the power supply or BIOS but the system board which is damaged. That means replacing the board.
Only a humble view on the issues, worth a try no damage can result.
The description of what happens fits what is called a POST failure. That means it is failing the power on self start test sequence or POST. The causes can be one of the following; dodgy power supply, corrupted BIOS or shot system board. The fan starting and LEDs on indicates that it is getting power but failing the POST test (which all PC's do at the beginning when turned on), basically as the system powers up it checks connections and supply to all peripherals and hardware connected. The recommendation was to disconnect everything except the monitor, if it starts then there is a peripheral issue and therefore reconnecting the peripherals one by one and doing the start will identify which one is causing an issue, that is which ever bit it was that got you a failure. Could be the monitor as well. Essentially peripherals such as monitor etc can do this.
It is more than likely something deeper at the BIOS or system board level. Given your description of the leak, have you tried pulling out all the boards, memory etc that you can get to and using a spray cleaner drier to get rid of any residual moisture that may be lurking somewhere? This stuff you can get at electronic stores, given that it is so cold where you are, you may have just a few drops of residual water or liquid inside the board or connectors which are basically almost frozen and when they get heat liquify or cause a short out. I would try the clean and dry as a cheap first step. If still no go then I think the system board is possibly shot, never had a corrupted bios in my life time of playing with PCs.
After the dry try holding down the power on button for several seconds maybe 10 without the power from mains ON, this will discharge any capacitors that also may be carrying residual power and preventing a start. The reconnect the power and try again holding down for 2-5 secs and observe if it starts up properly . If however it indicates power, fans turn and some LEDS come on but then fails to go through normal start with monitor displaying something etc, then it is not the power supply or BIOS but the system board which is damaged. That means replacing the board.
Only a humble view on the issues, worth a try no damage can result.
gman5250
Charter Member
No worries mate.
After I replaced the PSU my attempts to start the box were done with no peripherals i.e. screen plugged in. I unplugged the SSD and 5TB storage drives as well. Only the main C drive was powered up.
I read your suggestions and went through that sequence, still no joy. I'm pretty certain that the MoBo or CPU are at the heart of the problem. As you can see from my specs, both are a bit out dated....well lets just say obsolete in today's tech environment. It makes very little sense to repair the system with equivalent components, so I'm making the decision to update the box to generation 9 CPU, MoBo and memory. That will be more or less a complete rebuild and should bring the box up to date.
It may take a bit of time, but I will make that my focus. I really appreciate your interest and help. Thanks mate.
gman5250
Charter Member
Designed Obsolescence 
Whether it is the MoBo or the CPU that are broken, there is a conundrum. The only replacement for the existing CPU is $850.00 US, but it does have free shipping. The exact replacement MoBo is $379.99 for a "like new used", of course with free shipping as well. To replace one or both would result in a substantial investment in outdated tech. If my car, or bike is four years old I can still get tires and wiper blades, even a starter at a reasonable price. Not so for computers.
For slightly more than the cost of purchasing the now outdated CPU, I can upgrade the MoBO, CPU and memory to Gen 8/9. I've tallied up the shopping list, it's a bit over $1000.00 US. Of course, that will be the obvious course of action.
I'm not a fan of Modern Monetary Theory, but the folks over in Silicon Valley most certainly are. After all, this is Kalifornia where it costs me more to register my 2001 Silverado in 2019, than it did when the truck was new.
It'll take me a bit of time to pull it all together, but I'll build what is essentially a new box and jump back into my work. The single consolation, that combination with the GTX1080TI card will absolutely shine in P3Dv5.
Whether it is the MoBo or the CPU that are broken, there is a conundrum. The only replacement for the existing CPU is $850.00 US, but it does have free shipping. The exact replacement MoBo is $379.99 for a "like new used", of course with free shipping as well. To replace one or both would result in a substantial investment in outdated tech. If my car, or bike is four years old I can still get tires and wiper blades, even a starter at a reasonable price. Not so for computers.
For slightly more than the cost of purchasing the now outdated CPU, I can upgrade the MoBO, CPU and memory to Gen 8/9. I've tallied up the shopping list, it's a bit over $1000.00 US. Of course, that will be the obvious course of action.
I'm not a fan of Modern Monetary Theory, but the folks over in Silicon Valley most certainly are. After all, this is Kalifornia where it costs me more to register my 2001 Silverado in 2019, than it did when the truck was new.
It'll take me a bit of time to pull it all together, but I'll build what is essentially a new box and jump back into my work. The single consolation, that combination with the GTX1080TI card will absolutely shine in P3Dv5.
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BendyFlyer
Charter Member
Bugger, yep either one has had it. Understand your predicament. My Box has limited slots that will not take upgrades to new stuff because of the MOB was not designed for them. On top of that I know my HD is starting to get wonky, fails to write to disk or is slow etc, as you say you could probably upgrade the lot but is it worth it. My unit was state of the art 7 years ago but now is so far behind it is not funny and it is getting tired despite some memory upgrades etc. I guess I will have to bite the bullet at some stage but having gone off grid and headed for the hills some time ago, one is not flash for cash and given the extreme weather that seems common these days those resources are become more and more stretched. Hear what you say understand the problem my friend. Plenty of cash it would not be an issue but when its tight every buck counts and if you spend it you got do it the best you can with the best result. Good luck hope it works out.
gman5250
Charter Member
Interesting:
I spent all day working on my expired workstation. I pulled off all of the bling plastic and exposed the working parts. I removed the radiator from the chassis and pulled the fans from the radiator. I deep cleaned the fans and radiator, then re-assembled them into the box. I checked all of the external power switches and fan adjustment sliders, cleaning everything meticulously.
While I had the radiator out I closely checked the eight pin CPU power connector on the MoBo. On this board there are issues with heat damage reported, but I found everything to be fine on the old power supply. I triple checked all of the main power connections i.e. MoBO, CPU, GPU and externals. Then I went around and triple checked every connection on the MoBp to the various fans, headers, SATA etc. I hyper cleaned the entire box including all of the cables and shielded cables etc., then I plugged in the main power supply.
Here's the funny part... I was re-installing the external bling plastic to the front and top of the unit. As I was snapping down the top piece, I depressed the start button by accident.
The machine powered up!
I didn't have the screen connected, but by sound I could hear the machine searching for it's boot sequence. At this point I shut the machine down because I had removed the CPU heat sink during the inspection and need to clean the CPU & heat sink and re-apply thermal paste. I did, however, hook up the screen and attempt a short boot sequence to enter the BIOS. The monitor was not receiving any data via the HDMI 3 cable, and showed no connection. I checked the monitor to make sure it was pointed to HDMI 3, it was.
I thought it may be the GPU, so I switched out the GTX 1080 TI to my GTX 780 TI. Same result with both cards, so I put the 1080 back into the tower.
With my limited expertise I am leaning to the conclusion that it is the MoBo that has failed. All of the components including the video cards are spooling up, fans turning and lights blinking...just no output to the monitor.
At this point I'm still looking at the system update/rebuild.
I spent all day working on my expired workstation. I pulled off all of the bling plastic and exposed the working parts. I removed the radiator from the chassis and pulled the fans from the radiator. I deep cleaned the fans and radiator, then re-assembled them into the box. I checked all of the external power switches and fan adjustment sliders, cleaning everything meticulously.
While I had the radiator out I closely checked the eight pin CPU power connector on the MoBo. On this board there are issues with heat damage reported, but I found everything to be fine on the old power supply. I triple checked all of the main power connections i.e. MoBO, CPU, GPU and externals. Then I went around and triple checked every connection on the MoBp to the various fans, headers, SATA etc. I hyper cleaned the entire box including all of the cables and shielded cables etc., then I plugged in the main power supply.
Here's the funny part... I was re-installing the external bling plastic to the front and top of the unit. As I was snapping down the top piece, I depressed the start button by accident.
The machine powered up!
I didn't have the screen connected, but by sound I could hear the machine searching for it's boot sequence. At this point I shut the machine down because I had removed the CPU heat sink during the inspection and need to clean the CPU & heat sink and re-apply thermal paste. I did, however, hook up the screen and attempt a short boot sequence to enter the BIOS. The monitor was not receiving any data via the HDMI 3 cable, and showed no connection. I checked the monitor to make sure it was pointed to HDMI 3, it was.
I thought it may be the GPU, so I switched out the GTX 1080 TI to my GTX 780 TI. Same result with both cards, so I put the 1080 back into the tower.
With my limited expertise I am leaning to the conclusion that it is the MoBo that has failed. All of the components including the video cards are spooling up, fans turning and lights blinking...just no output to the monitor.
At this point I'm still looking at the system update/rebuild.
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gman5250
Charter Member
I've got a couple of HDMI 3 cables and used both. I didn't try alternate cable types, but I think the cables are fine.
I've got a couple of HDMI 3 cables and used both. I didn't try alternate cable types, but I think the cables are fine.
How about the monitor itself? Have you tried another?
IMHO it is indeed the MoBo that has failed.
Pity that you can't try out the GTX1080TI on another rig to be absolutely sure. But the fact that the 780TI didn't function either is a good sign!
Keep us posted mate!
Priller
