You need to turn on HUD with the left top rotating knob on the ICP (see page 33 of the manual) and switch on the HUD knobs on the right side console. Also read this topic: http://www.forum.aerosoft.com/index.php?showtopic=20851
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The Staff of SOH
Released: Aerosoft F-16
- Thread starter Nick C
- Start date
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tigisfat
Guest
wow, after 15 minutes of flying it I can tell everyone that the flight dynamics are AWESOME and worth the price of admission alone. No other developer has come close to producing a fighter that flies like this. The computer controlled fly-by-wire is reproduced well, as is the aircraft's ability to remain stable while opening up AOA. My only gripe is that the rudder rolls more than it yaws, but I don't know enough about the F-16 to say whether it should or shouldn't be like that.
I can't reccomend this product enough.
(thanks for the help, directing me to the right page in the manul was perfect. I can't stand when people simply tell you to **** when it's a jillion pages long)
I can't reccomend this product enough.
(thanks for the help, directing me to the right page in the manul was perfect. I can't stand when people simply tell you to **** when it's a jillion pages long)
ryanbatc
Charter Member
Thanks a bunch, I uploaded the pics in a zip file to media fire, link here:
http://www.mediafire.com/?ogmntfyjzzo
Also I included the old paint if the tail is too tough, the old paint (basic tail) was taken in broad daylight so the colors are better....most of the new bulldog tail pics were taken when the sun was low in the sky...
Those are really kind words, thank you. The Rudder yaw/roll characteristics were modeled after flight responses taken from the NASA Aimes/Langley simulator. In these simulators, deflecting the rudder produced an angular velocity which was three times greater for roll than yaw. As an example, if an (arbitrary) rudder deflection causes the F-16 to yaw at 5 deg/s, then the aerodynamics are such that the aircraft will also be rolling at ~15deg/s if no aileron/stabilator coordination is applied.
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tigisfat
Guest
the slow roll is one of my favorite maneuvers, and the thunderchickens perform it in the F-16. What do you use for yaw correction when doing a slow roll if the rudders make to much roll?
jcagle: was this roll moment that we're talking about being produced by the rudder shown at all speeds? I'm wondering if the model you used produced that roll moment at low speeds and high AOA only. That would seem more natural.
jcagle: was this roll moment that we're talking about being produced by the rudder shown at all speeds? I'm wondering if the model you used produced that roll moment at low speeds and high AOA only. That would seem more natural.
Just a mix of the rudder and varying amounts of elevator seems to work for me.
Tigisfat: The model did include high angle of attack responses. However, a second source (13 were used in this fm) corroborated this for low Angles of Attack. I just looked up the numbers again, and the rudder dependant roll to yaw moment coefficient ratio is 3.08:1 at Alpha=0. In terms of speed based effects, this trend was propogated throughout the flight envelope as I applied a more or less uniformly variable mach based effects (relative, not absolute) on the control surfaces. If your experience as a pilot says the rudder induced roll trend is decreased as speed increases (I thought I remembered you saying you had at least a few hours in an F-16), then I can certainly tone it down for SP1.
ColoKent: Thank you for the complement, my single greatest motivation in this endeavor is to bring realism and joy to the fine folks of this hobby (and especially this forum).
ColoKent: Thank you for the complement, my single greatest motivation in this endeavor is to bring realism and joy to the fine folks of this hobby (and especially this forum).
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tigisfat
Guest
When I say that I have a few hours in F-16s, I mean that I've gotten rides in them and have some stick time. I know more than the average joe who doesn't fly or maintain them, but I'm no expert.
If your data says that the roll should be there, then I'd stick with what you've done. I just can't remember the roll moment being that strong. It makes slow flight and touchdowns kinda wierd not being able to straighten out the nose with the rudder.
If your data says that the roll should be there, then I'd stick with what you've done. I just can't remember the roll moment being that strong. It makes slow flight and touchdowns kinda wierd not being able to straighten out the nose with the rudder.
What sort of work do you do on the F-16?
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tigisfat
Guest
PM sent!!
I also noticed that deflecting the rudder produces only a roll moment in the Aerosoft F-16. No yaw moment at all which is a bit weird.
Even at a high AoA.
I don't know if this is correct but according to my sources manual rudder input is being phased out at high AoA and at the 25deg limit there's no manual rudder input possible at all.
Furthermore I don't know if the F-16 FBW system automatically counteracts the rolling tendency when applying rudder.
Any first hand info on that?
Except for this (and no working gear unsafe light on my installation) it's a breathtaking add-on.
Became one of my very very few favourites in no time!
Even at a high AoA.
I don't know if this is correct but according to my sources manual rudder input is being phased out at high AoA and at the 25deg limit there's no manual rudder input possible at all.
Furthermore I don't know if the F-16 FBW system automatically counteracts the rolling tendency when applying rudder.
Any first hand info on that?
Except for this (and no working gear unsafe light on my installation) it's a breathtaking add-on.
Became one of my very very few favourites in no time!
There is actually a yaw moment, but to experience it exclusively, you have to use coordinated aileron input (read my posts above). With respect to high angle of attack. The NASA fly-by-wire simulator cuts out all lateral controls to the pilot at 30 deg AoA. This is because above 30deg the F-16 is naturally prone to Dutch Roll, Roll Depature, and experiences Aileron Reversal. So, above 30 degrees, all lateral stability and control surface input is provided by the fly-by-wire system. However, the fly by wire system in FSX can't the F-16 (it can't handle the Accel F-18 either). It updates too slowly and overloads, which winds up freezing the controls just after ~250kts or a hard maneuver. Consequently, all of the effects of the fly-by-wire system had to be written into the aerodynamic profile. I know it's not the ideal solution, but it was the best compromise I could achieve.
MHAircraft
Charter Member
Another one coming up ...
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tigisfat
Guest
I hate to tell it to you like this, but what you're experiencing is a limitation of the sim, not the FDE. Aircraft in MSFS with high roll and pitch rates tend to depart controlled flight if you take them to far. This is not a big deal, you just need to reduce the commands you're giving the aircraft, and reduce your sensitivities. If you pay attention to the G-meter, you're pulling unrealistic G levels when you do it that would break the aircraft in real life.
It's different in the Extra. The default extra is highly hampered by the sim, and there's many things you should be able to do that you aren't even at low G's and speeds.
Unfortunately it's the same story even if I reduce my input. It just goes out of control more slowly, instead!
I tried exactly the same manouvre with Piglet's A-29, which does have a fast roll rate, and the plane remains in control for the entire maneouvre. Does a nice, quick barrel roll, at full speed, with full aileron and elevator input.
I tried exactly the same manouvre with Piglet's A-29, which does have a fast roll rate, and the plane remains in control for the entire maneouvre. Does a nice, quick barrel roll, at full speed, with full aileron and elevator input.
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tigisfat
Guest
It may be possible in some aircraft, but I promise you that the problems you're experienceing are procedural. I fly aerobatics in real life, and I can outline how some various rolls are performed. Of course, it's only a sim and you can fly things however you like or want to see, but if my advice helps you then you're welcome to it.
Slow rolls: start level and at a fairly fast speed. pitch up five to ten degrees, and start a constant and slow rate of roll that you will adhere to for the entire maneuver. Use the following controls in a increasing then decreasing manner to keep the nose relatively in the same place; rudder, nose down pitch, opposite rudder, then a small amount of nose up. While inverted your nose should pass slowly through the horizon on it's way to the opposite of the value you pitched up too. When finished you should be at the same altitude you started at bt pitching up for the horizon. Your altitude change should be minimal throughout the maneuver.
hesitation rolls: use the same principal as a slow roll, but go max aileron with small opposite inputs to make it punctuated when you hesitate. While hesitating, keep the nose up with rudders or pitch. Add four, eight, or as many points as you'd like.
barrel rolls: Use a moderate amount of aileron, rudder and pitch to go up and around. You should gain and lose a fair amount of altitude, with your nose passing through the horizon at the exact point you're passing through wings level inverted flight. When you finish, you should be at the same altitude you started at. The maneuver should look just like you drove all the way around around the inside of a tunnel. Note that this isn't a rapid maneuver.
Loaded rolls: this is similar to a barrel role in flight path, but you're building a big AOA and keeping it, therefore making the pitch you use more than the roll. This maneuver should be exclusively for modern high powered aircraft, as it's done slowly with high power settings to overcome drag. This is probably the one you saw, but you're not doing it right if you go flat out with the pitch.
aileron rolls: pitch up slightly, use max roll and a medium amount of rudder. To make it snap, apply slight opposite aileron at the end to bring it to a stop.
snap rolls: at a slow to medium speed, suddenly apply full nose up elevator and full rudder in the direction you want to snap. don't use aileron to help, but if you need it to stabilize at the end, then use it. You're literally making the aircraft attempt to spin, but you're maintaining positive control. You shouldn't be able to accomplish this in jet aircraft, nor should you try in real life, but once again, it's a game. Try if you want, but it's not a true snap roll in a jet.
Slow rolls: start level and at a fairly fast speed. pitch up five to ten degrees, and start a constant and slow rate of roll that you will adhere to for the entire maneuver. Use the following controls in a increasing then decreasing manner to keep the nose relatively in the same place; rudder, nose down pitch, opposite rudder, then a small amount of nose up. While inverted your nose should pass slowly through the horizon on it's way to the opposite of the value you pitched up too. When finished you should be at the same altitude you started at bt pitching up for the horizon. Your altitude change should be minimal throughout the maneuver.
hesitation rolls: use the same principal as a slow roll, but go max aileron with small opposite inputs to make it punctuated when you hesitate. While hesitating, keep the nose up with rudders or pitch. Add four, eight, or as many points as you'd like.
barrel rolls: Use a moderate amount of aileron, rudder and pitch to go up and around. You should gain and lose a fair amount of altitude, with your nose passing through the horizon at the exact point you're passing through wings level inverted flight. When you finish, you should be at the same altitude you started at. The maneuver should look just like you drove all the way around around the inside of a tunnel. Note that this isn't a rapid maneuver.
Loaded rolls: this is similar to a barrel role in flight path, but you're building a big AOA and keeping it, therefore making the pitch you use more than the roll. This maneuver should be exclusively for modern high powered aircraft, as it's done slowly with high power settings to overcome drag. This is probably the one you saw, but you're not doing it right if you go flat out with the pitch.
aileron rolls: pitch up slightly, use max roll and a medium amount of rudder. To make it snap, apply slight opposite aileron at the end to bring it to a stop.
snap rolls: at a slow to medium speed, suddenly apply full nose up elevator and full rudder in the direction you want to snap. don't use aileron to help, but if you need it to stabilize at the end, then use it. You're literally making the aircraft attempt to spin, but you're maintaining positive control. You shouldn't be able to accomplish this in jet aircraft, nor should you try in real life, but once again, it's a game. Try if you want, but it's not a true snap roll in a jet.
Thanks for the advice. Unfortunately I still have to stand by the fact that I simply can't perform one of those loaded rolls without it going completely haywire. Like I say, even if I am performing it incorrectly, there's absolutely no way the aircraft should behave in the way it does. Yes, I know the sim has some bizarre stall characteristics, but the fact is that the aircraft shouldn't go into such a stall so suddenly. It's not even a case of the aircraft bleeding off airspeed quickly and slipping and sliding into a stall, it's just apply the aileron/elevator and bang - it's out of control.
In short, I know of plenty of aircraft that don't do this, and it'd be nice to know if there was a way of fixing the F-16 so it doesn't either. I respect your thoughts, but I'm still finding it hard to believe that it's solely down to the sim/my piloting skills when it's one of a select few aircraft that behave like this.
In short, I know of plenty of aircraft that don't do this, and it'd be nice to know if there was a way of fixing the F-16 so it doesn't either. I respect your thoughts, but I'm still finding it hard to believe that it's solely down to the sim/my piloting skills when it's one of a select few aircraft that behave like this.