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The Staff of SOH
F7F Tigercat SOH Project
- Thread starter Milton Shupe
- Start date
nigel richards
Charter Member
I thought it would be interesting to take the XF7F-1 variant for a check ride in FSX Steam. This is the model as it exists now, not FSX native yet.
I've worked with the alpha channels and base texturing to render a convincing airframe. This is the airframe with reflective skins active.
Amazing progress, gman5250 - great to see this awesome model taken to a new level of beauty
Mick
SOH-CM-2025
Excellent! I have stashed those photos for future use, and I hope it won't be too far in the future!
There are more photos available on the net, and I have another 10 I think, many are closeups if you are interested.
You may also be interested in this attachment Mick.
And check out this website; see the "Development" page: http://napoleon130.tripod.com/f7ftigercat/id75.html
Interesting read from a post:
Aaron, 01.10.2010
I have read that the F7F was the fastest accelerating fighter to become operational in WW2. In the August 2002 issue of Flight Journal Corky Meyers (Grumman test pilot) had this to say conserning the F7F:
"For many years Capt. Trapnell was the top test pilot in the Navy; his word was law, both in the Navy and industry flight-test circles. An example of his influence: he came for a three-hour flight evaluation of the first XF6F-3 Hellcat soon after its first flight and he gave the official Navy go-ahead for mass production on that day! The Hellcat eventually passed all of its contractual demonstrations two and a half years later, after more than 8,000 aircraft had delivered to fighting squadrons! Also, to his credit, the Hellcat racked up a record 19 to 1 kill-to-loss ratio the highest recorded in WW2.
When he came to Grumman to conduct the preliminary evaluation of the Panther in early 1948, I was the only Grumman test pilot who had flown the company's first jet fighter. At every opportunity during his three-day evaluation, I tried to pry his opinions out of him; his only responses were grunts, which I enterpreted as "Cool it, Corky!" At the end of his evaluation, as we walked out to his F7F-4N Tigercat for his return trip to the Naval Air Test Center, I proudly told him that I was the Tigercat project pilot from 1943-1946. He immediately burst into a diatribe about the Tigercat's many deficiencies: the over-cooling of the engines; a lack of longitudinal stability; excessively high dihedral rolling effect with rudder input; the high, minimum single-engine control speed, etc. He ended his oration with: "If I had been the chief of the Test Center at the time, I would have had you fired!" Each criticism of the Tigercat was absolutely correct. I was devastated and fervently wished that I hadn't gotten out of bed that day.
Just as we reached his Tigercat, I blurted , "If you dislike the Tigercat so much, why do you always fly it?" He explained: "The excess power of its two engines is wonderful for aerobatics; the cockpit planning and the forward visibility in the carrier approach is the best in any fighter ever built; the tricycle landing gear allows much faster pilot checkouts; the roll with the power boost rudder is faster than the ailerons; an it has a greater range than any fighter in inventory." Again he was absolutely right. As he climbed up the ladder to the cockpit, he turned around, grinned and told me, "It's the best damn fighter I've ever flown." I realized he had thrown the entire test-pilot schoolbook at me with his succinct triade and that we were probably pretty close in our opinions regarding the handling characteristics that define a really good fighter. I went hom happy that night."
More here: http://www.aviastar.org/air/usa/grumman_tigercat.php
Aaron, 01.10.2010
I have read that the F7F was the fastest accelerating fighter to become operational in WW2. In the August 2002 issue of Flight Journal Corky Meyers (Grumman test pilot) had this to say conserning the F7F:
"For many years Capt. Trapnell was the top test pilot in the Navy; his word was law, both in the Navy and industry flight-test circles. An example of his influence: he came for a three-hour flight evaluation of the first XF6F-3 Hellcat soon after its first flight and he gave the official Navy go-ahead for mass production on that day! The Hellcat eventually passed all of its contractual demonstrations two and a half years later, after more than 8,000 aircraft had delivered to fighting squadrons! Also, to his credit, the Hellcat racked up a record 19 to 1 kill-to-loss ratio the highest recorded in WW2.
When he came to Grumman to conduct the preliminary evaluation of the Panther in early 1948, I was the only Grumman test pilot who had flown the company's first jet fighter. At every opportunity during his three-day evaluation, I tried to pry his opinions out of him; his only responses were grunts, which I enterpreted as "Cool it, Corky!" At the end of his evaluation, as we walked out to his F7F-4N Tigercat for his return trip to the Naval Air Test Center, I proudly told him that I was the Tigercat project pilot from 1943-1946. He immediately burst into a diatribe about the Tigercat's many deficiencies: the over-cooling of the engines; a lack of longitudinal stability; excessively high dihedral rolling effect with rudder input; the high, minimum single-engine control speed, etc. He ended his oration with: "If I had been the chief of the Test Center at the time, I would have had you fired!" Each criticism of the Tigercat was absolutely correct. I was devastated and fervently wished that I hadn't gotten out of bed that day.
Just as we reached his Tigercat, I blurted , "If you dislike the Tigercat so much, why do you always fly it?" He explained: "The excess power of its two engines is wonderful for aerobatics; the cockpit planning and the forward visibility in the carrier approach is the best in any fighter ever built; the tricycle landing gear allows much faster pilot checkouts; the roll with the power boost rudder is faster than the ailerons; an it has a greater range than any fighter in inventory." Again he was absolutely right. As he climbed up the ladder to the cockpit, he turned around, grinned and told me, "It's the best damn fighter I've ever flown." I realized he had thrown the entire test-pilot schoolbook at me with his succinct triade and that we were probably pretty close in our opinions regarding the handling characteristics that define a really good fighter. I went hom happy that night."
More here: http://www.aviastar.org/air/usa/grumman_tigercat.php
Listed as a 2 seater -3P http://www.airliners.net/photo/Grum...34829/L/&sid=a8799ddcfb633f0ed2f67bf67c394ed2
You never know what you will run into when flight testing ...
gman5250
Charter Member
.Amazing progress, gman5250 - great to see this awesome model taken to a new level of beauty
Thank you sir.
I think that if I were to win a lottery to have a go at the airplane of my choice, it would quite likely be this one. The blend of sleek, sexy design with the raw power she possessed would be irresistible.
The model(s) will have my full attention. The FSX native bird will undoubtedly become an obsession...in a very healthy way.
gman5250
Charter Member
I've tested the plane in FSX, FSX Steam and P3Dv2.5. Be advised that the model is not intended for 2.5, but it behaves quite well with some minor, tiny anomalies. The FSX/P3D native model will address the glitches. In the meantime, the model seems to be very happy in all environments.
I'll be providing a paint kit with comprehensive layering and all the necessary bits to do your own paints. At this point I'm focusing on small details like intakes and cowl flaps. There is some rivet detailing in one or two areas, but the basic is very close. The variants will only require some minor adjustments.
All of these details will translate to exquisite bump mapping and light texturing when the FSX/P3D native models are ready. I can't wait.
The screen below is a P3Dv2.5 shot showing the new detailing at on the undercarriage, cowl interior and some basic decaling. This is a generic, not a representation of any know aircraft. I'm concentrating on texturing/weathering the metal panels to bring out the look of service aluminum. The generic format works best at this stage.
You may notice some of Mr. Shupe's other work parked about my hangar.
Thank you all for you kind comments. It is my distinct pleasure to be doing this particular aircraft.
I'll be providing a paint kit with comprehensive layering and all the necessary bits to do your own paints. At this point I'm focusing on small details like intakes and cowl flaps. There is some rivet detailing in one or two areas, but the basic is very close. The variants will only require some minor adjustments.
All of these details will translate to exquisite bump mapping and light texturing when the FSX/P3D native models are ready. I can't wait.
The screen below is a P3Dv2.5 shot showing the new detailing at on the undercarriage, cowl interior and some basic decaling. This is a generic, not a representation of any know aircraft. I'm concentrating on texturing/weathering the metal panels to bring out the look of service aluminum. The generic format works best at this stage.
You may notice some of Mr. Shupe's other work parked about my hangar.
Thank you all for you kind comments. It is my distinct pleasure to be doing this particular aircraft.
WND
Charter Member
Good morning Gman:
One thing I've noticed thru out all this (no matter what 'sim' it is) - along with the 'superb' work - is the appearance of the glass on the canopy - to me it appears 'tinted'..
My question is: Is it going to be addressed ? By you ? Is it something that Milton has to handle ? Or is that the way it will be as a 'finished' item ??
Just curious..
Bill
EDIT: I've just reviewed some previous 'posts' and apparently it appears to be a P3D issue - therefore you can dis-regard my question !!
WND
One thing I've noticed thru out all this (no matter what 'sim' it is) - along with the 'superb' work - is the appearance of the glass on the canopy - to me it appears 'tinted'..
My question is: Is it going to be addressed ? By you ? Is it something that Milton has to handle ? Or is that the way it will be as a 'finished' item ??
Just curious..
Bill
EDIT: I've just reviewed some previous 'posts' and apparently it appears to be a P3D issue - therefore you can dis-regard my question !!
WND
padburgess
Charter Member
Hi Milton
An observation and question. Firstly this is a fantastic model and a credit to all concerned. However I notice that the pilot figure used makes the aircraft look absolutely huge. He appears to be sitting nearly completely out of the cockpit with the canopy sill at or below his waist. This sizing would make the wheels nearly as tall as the pilot. In photos I have looked at the pilots sit in the cockpit with the canopy sill at or above mid upper arm level.
Is this the final pilot model and is the sizing meant to be this way?
An observation and question. Firstly this is a fantastic model and a credit to all concerned. However I notice that the pilot figure used makes the aircraft look absolutely huge. He appears to be sitting nearly completely out of the cockpit with the canopy sill at or below his waist. This sizing would make the wheels nearly as tall as the pilot. In photos I have looked at the pilots sit in the cockpit with the canopy sill at or above mid upper arm level.
Is this the final pilot model and is the sizing meant to be this way?
Mick
SOH-CM-2025
Thanks Milton! The pics you posted earlier show most of the markings, but there are two areas missing: the upper right and lower left wings. Those two locations are where the standards changed a couple times during the Dark Sea Blue era, and where the standards often tended to be interpreted loosely. An educated guess would be that it said MARINES under the left wing and the individual aircraft number and squadron letter(s) on the upper right. But it would be great to have photos to confirm or refute that, especially since this plane has a number instead of a squadron code on the tail, which seems a bit non-standard. Also, it's a museum example, and museums don't always get all the markings right anyway.
I searched the web again and found more than I did the first time. I now have good photo coverage of two different 2-seat -3Ps in what appear to be authentic service markings. They both appear to be restored warbirds, but the markings are all in accordance with the standards of the period when the Tigercat was on active duty, so there's good hope that they are historically authentic.
I actually found good coverage of four 2-seat -3Ps, but two of them are warbirds with fancy nose art that's far beyond my ability to reproduce.
I probably won't want to paint more than one or two of this (or any other) variant, since even such an affecionado as I of the Dark Sea Blue period must admit that, as good as the Navy's planes looked in those days, they tended to all look alike. But I will look forward to painting a -3P 2-seater that we can fly either in its own era (as in my FS1954) or in the modern era as a warbird.
One can never have too much reference material, so I would love to have more pictures of any 2-seat -3Ps. If you have too many to post here you could e-mail me. If you don't still have my e-address you could send me a PM and I'll provide it.
gman5250
Charter Member
Thanks Bill,
The canopy in the model displays nearly clear in FSX and FSX Steam. The canopy does have a slightly dark tint in P3Dv2.5, I just ignore it. There are other anomalies...the lack of alpha reflection, spec and bump mapping in this version being the most notable.
Once Mr. Shupe has finished the updates, the model will be made available to be converted to FSX/P3D compatible. Those items will be resolved for sure.
For the model as it will be released, I have used the alpha channel to break up the glass like surfaces related to glossy or polished FS9 models. The detailing in the art and the variable shine create a fairly effective appearance of an un-even surface.
Gman
Thanks for pointing out this question. The pilot is about 5'10" plus helmet.
In comparing to many other pictures, most with canopy closed, and of course with different sized pilots and seat adjustments, it is hard to determine.
I found some pics with the canopy open with pilot and used them to adjust the pilot figure down a bit. Now he looks low and small to me but I can go with this.
I made the pilots in the 5 aircraft all sit a little differently so everyone can find one to best suit.
EDIT: Maybe I need to scale him up some more.
HorusJ
Charter Member
I made the pilots in the 5 aircraft all sit a little differently so everyone can find one to best suit.
I'm happy with that!
Attachments
Thanks for pointing out this question. The pilot is about 5'10" plus helmet.
In comparing to many other pictures, most with canopy closed, and of course with different sized pilots and seat adjustments, it is hard to determine.
I found some pics with the canopy open with pilot and used them to adjust the pilot figure down a bit. Now he looks low and small to me but I can go with this.
I made the pilots in the 5 aircraft all sit a little differently so everyone can find one to best suit.
EDIT: Maybe I need to scale him up some more.
Awww, Milton's just keeping an eye out for the 'vertically challenged' Pilots out there, like me!
I still need to sit on top of a Phone Book in order to see over the dashboard in the car. Think what it would be like for me in the driver's seat of a Tigercat... LOL!
Alan
